Desktops: New pc or gut the old one?
New pc or gut the old one?
by Hodgelett - 11/7/05 6:40 AMIn my home we go through a system of buying one computer for my dad, then a couple of years later one for me and so on. But last year I bought a laptop for uni instead and had intended to use my old year-2k desktop just for storage...it's pretty much on its last legs.
However, my mum has started basic IT classes and my dad's considering replacing it and giving my mum his (pretty good) '02 NEC. However, I was wondering if we could just replace key parts like the motherboard.
Current status: (from memory)
Tower pc with:
AMD-K6 3D
Two 20GB hard drives
CD player & CD RW (the latter sometimes has issues)
Floppy drive of course
Win XP Pro (Win ME too...tried to remove through a reformat, which failed)
512mb RAM
Trident Blade 3D
Pair of ok-ish speakers
17" CRT (slightly too big for the pc desk due to redecorating...no faults otherwise. My mum wants a flatscreen though)
If you're British here's the killer fact: it's an old Time. Thank goodness they're out of business.
Current usage: storage, MS Office '03, office tutorial package, recording from hi-fi/lp equipment, downloading (ltd. - wireless connection), very occasionally some gaming.
Your expected computer usage...
by bbcamp2 - 11/7/05 1:22 PM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by Hodgelett...doesn't suggest a power system, but more like an entry level system. Here, you can get something perfectly serviceable for $300 to $400.
Assuming the $400 budget you could:
Replace the motherboard, CPU, cooling fan, memory (If you're lucky, your new motherboard can use your old memory, but you likely won't see much improvement), and hardrive. You'll be able to save the case, keyboard and mouse, and the CD drive, but these are very cheap parts of the system. You might be able to re-install your operating system, but I wouldn't count on it, so add another $100.
You will, however, get to learn how to build your own computer: priceless!
that computer should be fine for you
by AKonny47 - 11/7/05 7:38 PM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by Hodgelettthe programs that you use it for will run fine on that computer. i don't think anything needs replacing, you have ample amount of storage in any case.
konny
Well not really...
by Hodgelett - 11/8/05 5:17 AM In reply to: that computer should be fine for you by AKonny47The point is that it's extremely slow, is having issues, etc.
It can't even cope with a direct connection on the broadband and I bought an HP 1510 the other week and it wouldn't install...just kept freezing the pc, even after anything that had been installed was removed. I had to do a system restore. In the long run the lack of printer shouldn't be a problem as I'll be swopping it with the old 840C I took to uni in December but the computer itself is pretty much on its last legs.
I'll give my parents a ring this evening and ask if they planned to do anything else once the pc is upgraded/replaced.
I believe the pro of getting a new one is to aid my dad in his movie making/editing as it's slow on his current NEC.
reee
by - 11/11/05 2:50 AM In reply to: Well not really... by Hodgelettwhat with holiday pricing coming up, you're most like to save money by buying a new one. ( i keep seeing those dang gateway, dell so on ads on tv. i build my own, and it usually costs me more. of course, i figure they'll try to con you into all the bells, whistles and other markup items {i read somewhere that dell operators are authorized to offer up to 30% off, even on sale prices, on some items: so if you go this way, be sure to ask about upgrades, and start haggling})
may work on other dealers too.
good luck
To upgrade or buy new?
by andy1512 - 11/11/05 4:57 AM In reply to: Well not really... by HodgelettHi
Your best bet is to buy a new computer with all the bells and whistles you get as extra incentive to do so these days.
I have always built my own PC's and that of family and freinds too.
However since the price of parts has not changed much but new computers continue to come down in price if you build or upgrade it costs more in the long run.
Get your old computer working to a reasonable level and sell it if possible, use ebay or some other site.
You can use that money towards a new bundle, it depends on your budget but go for a Pentium 4 with Hyperthreading technology and over 2.8GHz or an AMD 2800 and over with at least a Geg of DDR333 PC 2700 Memory, a DVD Combo for your copying.
Hope this helps
gut or clean slate?
by wantondstrction - 11/11/05 3:36 AM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by HodgelettWell, I've found in my own experience that there are some nice benefits from just gutting the old one. In fact the PC I'm using now is an old gutted one (my tower has a sticker on it that mentions 1996). If you gut it, you have a better idea where you wanna go with it. You know, look at your tower, what size board does it accomodate? Plus you have some of the groundwork already done for you. It also helps financially, being able to upgrade on a relatively piece by piece basis. The only problem you can have is compatibility, which can strike whenever you're trying to mix new parts with old ones.
Obviously, there are some good points to starting from scratch. It's all new parts, or relatively new parts, so you can have alot more confidence in how reliable it is.
If it were me? I would gut the old one. I would, and I have.
Only way I can tell you to determine what to do, is to pretty much look at what you have and determine which way is more cost effective, how much of a pain in the arse it could be, and do you feel you can make a reliable PC from an old one.
Cheers, and enjoy your new project!
Colton in the States
Consider an Apple
by ethernet76 - 11/11/05 4:34 AM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by HodgelettBased on your statement about your dad editing movies you also might want to consider getting a Mac mini or something similar.
I could extoll the Mac is better than PC argument, but I won't.
I went away to college four years ago, and took the home computer with me. As a replacement the rents got a Mac. They were a little worried at first, but eventually they grew to love it.
It sounds as if your the major source of computer knowledge in your house. Do you really want calls every week when something in Windows acts funny? Even if you don't mind, think about troubleshooting with them over the phone or having to come home because Windows lost an important file and the computer will no longer boot.
If you're still thinking PC, go with a new one. Building your own computer can be satisfying, but you don't get the service or support that comes with a new computer. If something breaks they'll be calling you.
Not an option.
by Hodgelett - 11/11/05 5:00 AM In reply to: Consider an Apple by ethernet76My dad is a teacher, so fortunately he gets most of his tech support off the IT Support guy there - which also means we can get things cheap. It also has the compatability question then, with things like transferring files etc. It's bad enough with his lab computers having '98 when every other computer in his school having XP. Also, having my mum basically learning how to use a computer, throwing a Mac in will basically confuse her seeing whenever I'm home I claim my computer back (it is in my bedroom afterall).
It's funny, my parents haven't called me yet this week, I'll update when they do.
(NT)
by daskeren - 11/11/05 5:06 AM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by HodgelettUpgrade or key part replacement?
by Mark0 - Technologist - 11/11/05 6:38 AM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by HodgelettGreetings,
Upgrading or replacement comes down to cost and features. Sometimes you may be able to replace one or two key parts of your computer to get more life out of it, other times its cheaper to just replace the entire thing.
I missed which CPU your old computer has, but in MY opinion, 512MB of RAM, 40GB of hard disk space and a CD R/RW is plenty to run Windows XP and basic applications.
(many laptops come with 128MB-512MB and 30-60GB hard disks and work just fine)
I think the key issues to your old computer "being on its last legs" is two fold:
1) its not a clean installation
2) the installation service duration is long
I recently experimented on "upgrading" a old Win98v2 desktop to XP-Pro and the resulting PC was UNUSEABLE.
**However** with the same EXACT hardware and a freshly partitioned/formatted hard disk, the PC was almost as responsive as my newer desktop.
Moral: While Windows XP can attempt to "upgrade" another version of windows, the results of doing it may not be a useable PC. Its always best to install FRESH on a CLEAN hard disk.
Secondly, over time a computers hard disk gets cluttered with old programs, service packs and all sorts of just plain JUNK (including spyware) that slows its performance to a crawl. Sometimes its a good idea to offload/remove/backup whatever data you wish to save on other media and REPARTITION/REFORMAT your hard disk and do a fresh install and fresh applicaton of the needed service packs.
Lastly, CDRW drives have come down ALOT in price since they first came out. My old desktop CDRW was giving me problems writting disks and $40 later I replaced it. A friend asked to use it and after installing it, they used a "CD LENSE CLEANER" on it. Now my old CDRW is working flawlessly in someone elses desktop!!
Moral: The LENSE on CDs and CDRW's sometimes can get dirty making them unuseable. A "CLEANER" CD can be had for $5-10 and if that does not work, a new CDRW could be had for $25-50.
New computer is a bad deal
by Kutusov - 11/11/05 8:29 AM In reply to: Upgrade or key part replacement? by Mark0 - TechnologistTo me, the question is a bit redundant. My computer is built by me, and every single component is had-picked. The advanage in this is that you get a better machine for less money, and a machine that is designed for your needs. I find in-stores computers always lacking in something. They can have big memory, but a not so good processor. A big 200g hard disk, but a bad mobo, a good allaround machine but cames with a lousy tft monitor.... Those guys have to earn their money and they must get it from somewhere. My computer is always an evolving machine, as I can add 500mb memory today, a dvd-burner two months from now and so on. So I get a pretty decent and updated machine with little efort each time i touch it. This takes a bit of effourt, reading reviews and finding the best value for money thing, the cheapest prices, etc. But it pays up by very far. And, to me, its lots of fun, kinda a project car.... Now, there was a time when I had to do a serious upgrade, so serious I didnīt used any of my old stuff. Not even the computer case. But in the end, Iīd got a computer better by far from the more expensive on the store and it costed me a bit more than theire cheapest one. One hing was missing thou.... it didnīt said "Compact" in the case...
buy new and reccycle/donate
by merryoboe - 11/11/05 7:03 AM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by HodgelettYou do leave some questions unanswered (like the speed of the RAM) but the minute you mention movies, that puts it over the edge. A dodgy burner, under 160GB of storage and slow CPU just won't cut movies. And as an educated guess, the RAM speed for a K6 is probably too slow as well. By your accounts of the good parts, you have an OS, good amount of RAM, two 20 GB hard drives, a monitor and speakers. Looking at that and looking at the prospect of movies, I'd definitely buy a whole new rig with the LCD that is desired.
That said, I would probably save one of the hard drives, buy it an enclosure and use it as a backup for my OS hard drive partition. As for the rest, can be made operable but will never be fast. Have your data securely wiped and look for a computer education program that donates computers to those who can't afford one. That will give a beginner a good computer and should get you a tax write-off for making the donation.
Buy new!
by Palmanic - 11/11/05 8:51 AM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by HodgelettI've upgraded a lot of systems and find that usually the total level that someone can upgrade their PC too, after 2-3 years, isn't worth the upgrade. Almost to a person, they have purchased a new system within a year's time-frame.
The standards just change too quickly.
Doesn't mean it's not still a good system for SOMEONE, but if you want to do video editing and/or gaming, you'll need a beefier system.
Couple of things to note for Video editing, if you can go with the newer 64 bit PC architetures, your going to see a small performance gain now, but more in the near future. Processor speed DOES matter. As much memory as you can afford (same for your video card). And SATA disks, not IDE. 2+ disks with a RAID 0 config is usually a good idea. (Some systems now offer this as an option, if so take it!) Disks as large as you can afford.
Anyway, I hope that helps. I'm building a new system this week, so this ? was pretty fresh for me. 
Have fun.
Some things to consider.
by Dutchmants - 11/11/05 10:27 AM In reply to: New pc or gut the old one? by HodgelettFirst off I don't know anything about the brand of computer you currently have but have a few major red flags to consider. Many of the major computer systems vendors do odd things to their system to try and prevent you from being able to make major upgrades to them. Their motherbooards and case designs will use non standard mounting hole layouts making fitting a new motherboard into the case a real pain. Some of the vendors use non standard motherboard power connectors in which case you might also have to replace the power supply which most likely isn't a dad idea any way with the typical OEM power supplies.
Some thing on the minus side to purchasing a new prebuilt system from a major vendor. Many (most) vendors cripple their BIOS options. That makes end user support easier for them but it also means you won't get as good performance out of the same componets as you likely would with those same components in a motherboard from one of the better known MB companies. Also you really need to watch out where vendors try to cut cost. I know of some vendors who like to brag about the fast processors and FSB speed of their systems but then in their standard configurations they install slow speed RAM that will have a very negative impact on system performance. Also you need to look closely at the hard drives they are installing. I know you are talking a desktop here but I'll use laptops as an example of where vendors screw you with HDs. Many laptops still ship with 4,800 RPM HDs standard if you are lucky you will get a 5,400 RPM drive it's very challenging to find a vendor with 7,200 RPM drives are even an option in their laptops. IF you are picky about what componets you want in a typical bargan store desktop you an figurte the price comiing out 50-150% higher by the time you specify you want to swap out the standard junk componets for goo quality ones.
At work I have no option but to use prebuilt systems. At home I've owned nothing but home built system for years. I can choose where I want to cut corners and where I want top of the line componets. A note if you are bulding your home system a good idea is to get a MB with a socket designed to take the newest fastest CPUs but then look at the current chip prices for the sweet spot where you aren't spending too much to have the latest fastest CPU. I have done this more than once and when I replaced the CPU with a faster one after a year or two my total cash outlay was a fraction of what it would of been to get the faster CPU up front. Of course then you have that old CPU and by then perhaps HDs video cards, an opytical drive, etc laying around so for a few dollars get another case and MB and you can have an extra if not state of the art system. Great for working on networking skills or trying you had at a different OS or the like. I have one old system that is pretty much dedicated to just basic scanning operations. One that has my finical records taht is neve on unless I am working with those records and only connects to the net for updates.
So I guess I would say if you like getting inside a case and your current system can be upgraded go for it. If you don't want to get inside the case then buy a system but not the typial store off the shelf one get one where you can do a custom configuration and make sure cheap or slow componets won't cripple an otherwise great system just don't be shocked if the system price at least doubles.
I would also support the idea of giving the no or low cash approach to the existing older system. Use a disk wipe utility to make sure everything is off the HD and then do a new clean OS install. I have an old PII-450 with 512MB Ram an ATA133 120MB HD that I was considering totall trashing till I did a clean rebuild going from 98SE on that system to Windows 2000 which I had an extra license for. I'm now wondering how it might run XP? I know any PIII 750MHz or faster with 512MB of RAM appear to run faster under XP than 2000. That OLD PII does a lot of web surfing. Sure it takes longer to boot and open application tha my 3.4GHz P4 but hey for basic web prowsing it's still the connection speed that limits most non streaming pages.
Good luck,
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