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Community Newsletter: Q&A: 10/28/05 If a wireless network signal is available, can I use it?
- 10/27/05 5:12 PM
Receiving signals on public ariwaves is free....
by jcrick - 10/28/05 8:41 AM In reply to: making trouble so bare with me by stoneiibut you cannot necessarly "use" or "access" it at your discression. For example, CB radio is a public frequency avaliable for anyone to use freely. I can listen all I want, *AND* I can talk on those frequencies all I want too.
But lets talk about police frequencies. I can receive them and listen to them all I want, no one can stop me and it is not illegal. But try broadcasting on that frequency and see who shows up at your door with a badge and handcuffs.
Accessing a network you are not authiorized to use is trespassing. And trespassing can be prosecuted under current laws.
Wireless vs police bands
by jojousa - 10/28/05 9:47 AM In reply to: Receiving signals on public ariwaves is free.... by jcrickThe post before you was pointing out the fact that the frequencies in use with wireless networks do not require licensing. The frequencies that police radios work on are frequencies that can be reserved with a license for that purpose. This give exclusive use to the police department, much like a company may get a license for its internal communication. These frequencies may be listened to at any point, but the police use codes (like encryption) to cut down on the number of people who can really understand what is going on. It is the owners responsibility to manage who may understand the traffic. Likewise, its the own of the wireless access point that must chose whether or not to encrypt his connection. Morally, it is wrong to listen to police frequencies because this gives you the possibility of breaking the law by interfering with their business. Not everyone who listens intereferes but is possible to. Using someone else's unsecured wireless is also a question of morals untill you start interfering with their connection, IMO.
OK, maybe the example was not the best, but...
by jcrick - 10/30/05 6:06 AM In reply to: Wireless vs police bands by jojousather real point here, is the moment you connect to a wireless network, you interfear with the owners network, because of the "communication" between the two computers. This is different from a radio (police, CB, etc.) where you have to press a buton to transmit.
And I also don't believe it is imoral to listen on a police scanner. One of my next door neighbors was a retired police captan, he says there is nothing illegal or imoral about listening in. But listening in on their broadcast for the purpose evasion or interference with police activity is both imoral and ilegal.
Not nessecerily public airwaves...
by obroad - 10/28/05 10:53 AM In reply to: Receiving signals on public ariwaves is free.... by jcrickThe band usually used by wireless networks is an ISM band where the rules are a bit odd. You are allowed high levels of "unwanted emissions" in the band but strictly speaking the band may not even be licensed for communication use.
That aside it is important to remember that you are NOT merely recieving a signal, you are connecting to it so even if the argument that the signal trespasses into your property holds up then when you connect your signal trespasses into their property.
Also there is a principle in shared bands that your right to recieve a signal is determined by the intent of the sender.
Holy-Cow!! I like your answer.
by jcrick - 10/28/05 8:32 AM In reply to: No Problem At All - Just That You Should Be In The Slammer by HolyCow!A lot of people thin that just because they can access something or download it and ''Crack'' the prottection it is OK. They are wrong.
This same thinking was used by proponents of Napster a few years ago. Everyone told me I was wrong when I said Napster was illegally sharing copyrighted material. No one saw anything wrong with it. Well, I guess they know better now.....
How do you crack that which has no security?
by hicksticks2001 - 10/28/05 4:40 PM In reply to: Holy-Cow!! I like your answer. by jcrickCracking into someone's network that has taken steps to secure it is one thing, but someone that has NO encryption, and not only that, publicly brodcasts their SSID is completely different. You don't have to "Crack" anything to hop on this open, publicly announced network, all you have to do is click "connect."
You are speaking of two seperate things my friends.
Yes, but in some ways they are related..
by jcrick - 10/30/05 6:32 AM In reply to: How do you crack that which has no security? by hicksticks2001I refered to "cracking" in downloading software programs, music and encoded DVDs, not an open WiFi system. But oddly enough the thinking is the same. People today think because they can rip and burn music and swap it with their friends, it OK. The same goes for downloading software and then applying a "crack" to it.
These same people seem to think there is nothing wrong with hijacking someones wireless connection simply because it is there. We could argue the mute point of legality all month here, and I wouldn't change the minds of those who just don't get it.
And I could spend the rest of my life trying to educate those who connect these systems in their homes and have no clue about what they are doing.
We had a case here just a month ago where a cracker got into someones wireless home system, stole their personal information and cleaned out their 401K to the tune of close to $200,000. Yes, the owner didn't properly secure his network. But the police traced the criminals down, recovered much of the money, and they are now behind bars waiting for thier court date.
Techno-Crooks
by ianbhall - 10/28/05 11:02 AM In reply to: No Problem At All - Just That You Should Be In The Slammer by HolyCow!I agree with the writer. These techno-thieves have low moral and ethical standards. Their attitudes indicate that they will steal anything that is accessible. for example, my wallet is in my pocket. The pocket is not locked or chained. They would take my wallet were it not for the risk of being caught. How sad.
No one is reaching into your back pocket
by hicksticks2001 - 10/28/05 4:46 PM In reply to: Techno-Crooks by ianbhallThis isn't someone reaching into your back pocket and stealing your wallet. In fact, you couldn't be further from accuracy. If you left you basketball at the public court, and someone else saw it there and used it in their game, and left it there when they were done with it, are they crooks? No, the basketball wasn't theres, but it was there, and they used it. They didn't cause any harm, and they left the basketball in the same condition they left it in.
Grow up. If you don't want someone playing with your balls then do something about it.
re: Playing with other's balls.
by supercourier - 10/29/05 9:57 AM In reply to: No one is reaching into your back pocket by hicksticks2001I agree with the ethos that you should let other's play with your balls. Refusing to securely cover your balls but then taking perverse pleasure in denying others the opportunity to play with them is the issue here...NOT trying to drum up self-righteous outrage about one's own refusal to turn the lock on a door -- or use the digital equivalent of a jockstrap -- as common knowledge and sense demand.
Let it all hang out for others to see (it IS a broadcast on public airwaves after all, just ask the FCC) and someone with play with them and that's OK...just as long as they don't bat them around too roughly.
What if the Ball Goes Flat?
by eye2fun - 10/29/05 3:18 PM In reply to: No one is reaching into your back pocket by hicksticks2001So let's say your back on the same public court, your using this guys basketball that just happens to go flat while your using it illegally. By using his ball without his permission you've taken responsibility for what happens to it while it is in your possession. You are also responsible for the lifespan of the ball you used up as well.
Picture this: Your standing there with the flat ball in your hands. Owner who was just off using the phone and bathroom returns. He also happens to be twice your size and just got off a nasty call to his girlfriend.
I don't think he would be too happy about you using his ball in the first place, let alone the fact that it is now flat. The court is fenced in and he's so mad his face is purple and his muscles are bulging. It looks about like he is about to do something (like you requested)about you playing with his balls. Now what do you do? Chickensh## in your pants before you try to run? Your caught, your dead, you will pay the price. 
What you don't understand about this phenomena is
by bwana2 - 11/1/05 12:37 AM In reply to: Techno-Crooks by ianbhallThere are thousands of people like me who do not encrypt their access point because we don't mind sharing it. I don't even need for someone to ask permission. I have my networked computers locked down and I have more bandwidth than I could possibly use. It's just a matter of being generous and those that accept that generosity are welcome. If someone was to get in trouble for using my connection, I would testify in their defense in a court of law.
Massive TechnoTards
by xgenx - 10/28/05 12:37 PM In reply to: No Problem At All - Just That You Should Be In The Slammer by HolyCow!I am really surprised to see the number of technotards who post to this forum, and see wifi as the latest boondoggle in the propagation of information. The printed book, the library, the video store, the mp3 have all been lambasted as the downfall of culture in their time. Now the use of open networks (ones where people have taken no time or effort to close them) is an offense punishable by jail time. This is not like taking someones wallet out of their pocket. It’s like listening to their television blaring through an open window or overhearing their conversation at a restaurant. I have an open network at home and sometimes my neighbors use it. If I had a problem with that I can very readily handle it myself. Calling the police and having them thrown in jail does not make the world safer, and it will not help you when the next technology you incompetently deploy gets out of your control. FREE WIRELESS NETWORKS ARE BEING DEPLOYED ACROSS THE COUNTRY BY MUNICIPALITIES!!! They do not require written permission! Don not be afraid! It is just new technology. Learn how to use it. And don’t have those same municipalities that are working so hard to grow it strangle it to death in jail cells and courthouses. Not everyone who uses free wireless networks is a criminal.
But "Who's" Learning how to use it?
by jcrick - 10/30/05 6:44 AM In reply to: Massive TechnoTards by xgenxSeems to me everyone is learning how to use the new technology. There is also a growing handful of those learning how to "Mis-use" it. Those are the people you needds to be concerned about, whether the system is open or not. Just a WEP was cracked, so to will WPA be cracked one day. Then what? Oh yea.... antother new technology will come along.
I couldn't have said it better.
by bwana2 - 10/31/05 11:37 PM In reply to: Massive TechnoTards by xgenxKudos to xgenx
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