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Community Newsletter: Q&A: 10/28/05 If a wireless network signal is available, can I use it?

by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator - 10/27/05 5:12 PM
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Post 31 of 206

People are Too Lazy! Here's a Great Solution!

by eye2fun - 10/29/05 1:27 AM In reply to: Let the ISP or Router Suppliers take some responsibility by JohnCNR

It seems most routers come with all the information, but most people are too lazy to use the manuals. They just plug them in and start using them. It's impossible for ISP's and Router manufacturers to do this work for us.

Now I have a question for you. Because of problems our routers have in telling us who is actually connected through them. Yes, figuring out unwanted users, that are using ''IP's'' assigned by your router's ''DHCP'' is pretty straight forward. You just find the ones that don't belong and block their ''Mac'' address. Simple! a lot of times these can be people unaware that their device is set to automatically select the strongest signal and your router just happens to be the one.

By the way there's a great number of networking devices that are capable of over 1,000 feet and with amplified equipment they even reach a whole lot further (like in close to a mile). N-series routers and cards are a prime example and send and receive signals over 1,000 ft even with objects in the way (houses, cars, telephone poles, etc: In fact they use it to their advantage).

The difficulty for the average user is finding the real thieves who have an assortment of tools to hack your network (Brute Forcers, etc.), including your WEP, and other encryption techniques. Most of these kinds of people don't accidentally connect to your network and they certainly don't use your router assignment of their ip address. So they don't show up on your ''DHCP'' client list. Unless you have your own sniffing tools and an advanced knowledge of the criminal side of things, they remain invisible. With any of todays Wireless Routers you are really in the dark as to the connections using your router as not only a way onto the Internet, but also into your computer.

So what can be done to a router that manufacturers can start putting into their equipment to safeguard us? I think a sniffer of sorts with better pass-thru logging would certainly help. ICMP ping blockers are certainly not enough, and only help keep out mechanical hack sniffers in search of a dolt client. Most home ''Router Firewalls'' are inherently simple and weak. Especially since your generic Windows installation leaves 1000's of ports open by default and the included firewall is a toy even for the most inexperienced newb hacker.

I think one thing people themselves can start doing is either buying a hardware firewall to set ahead of their ''Router'' or simply convert their own discarded computer into a Linux firewall. There are many very small Linux Firewall specific OS downloads available. Some as small as 20 megs and are pretty much a startup and run kind of thing. Even a novice can run some of them. Configured ahead of your network it can give you a greater peace of mind and more safety. If you really look into it, most of the hardware firewalls are running a form of embedded Linux anyway.

Now I'm going to give you a little shocker to think about. Since everyone should know that Microsoft Windows will continue to bleed, with only cover ups to try and patch the cavernous holes. Stacking various costly add on firewalls and anti-virus software will be a never ending ordeal.

Why not wake up and make a change! In the final analysis an overall winning choice is to dump the ''Hole-lier Than Thou'' Windows Operating System in favor of the ''Breakfast of Champions'' Linux operating system (used by more IT professionals and corporations, than any Winblows version). Because in the next version of ''Windows'' the greatest ''Hacker'' of them all ''Bill Gates'' will have all the keys, along with a whole bunch of willing dolts to keep Under His Rule. Being the good Corporate Boy Scout he is, he'll gladly turn you in, to cover his own mis-deeds ;)

''LINUX'' An Open Source Door to Your Future, Without Winblows Holes''! :)

Here is one of the many sites on the net that provide a ''Background Check'' of Mr. Gates and his hacking history: The 1st Year College Dropout!
http://www.mackido.com/History/Gates_a_Genius.html

Post 32 of 206

Get real...

by b8375629 - 10/29/05 1:08 PM In reply to: People are Too Lazy! Here's a Great Solution! by eye2fun

Not everybody out there's gonna change to Linux, so get real.

Most people are Joe or Jane Blow who go down to their local Best Buy and buy their computer down there. They generally aren't going to be as technically savvy as you or I, so I suggest you take that into consideration.

Bill Gates-bashing aside, whether you like it or not, Windows is the main operating system out there for the forseeable future. So the question now is, how are you going to make people 'safe' with whatever means they have at the moment.

Post 33 of 206

True!

by eye2fun - 10/29/05 1:59 PM In reply to: Get real... by b8375629

Yep, you are exactly right and I apologise any flames I threw your way in previous posts. I guess I just like getting in the ring and throwing a few punches. I think they call it punch drunk.

Some of the answer is in my first post under the also rans. I mean ''Honorable Mentions''! lol :)

Post 34 of 206

Slap away. I dare ya...

by b8375629 - 10/30/05 9:19 AM In reply to: True! by eye2fun

Gee, nimd4. Did I call you any names? Did I attack your mother?

The fact is even eye2fun even agreed with me in that last post. Unless you happen to be a Linux nazi who thinks the whole world out there should do what you do, which they probably won't.

Whether you like it or not, whether it's secure or not, whether it's flawed or not, Windows is here to stay. That's what people have to deal with, including hooking their wireless up to it.

Btw, I wouldn't worry about all the microwaves in the air. If everybody was dropping like flys from them, then the human lifespan of the last 50 years would've decreased, not increased.

There are bigger fish to worry about out there.

Now back to the topic at hand....

Post 35 of 206

Yes and no.

by comicfan - 10/30/05 9:18 PM In reply to: People are Too Lazy! Here's a Great Solution! by eye2fun

While I agree that Gates bashing has it's role and Linux it's place, you can't be that knowlegable about Linux if you think it's the only OS to be used. I say this not as a slap in the face or to cut you down but I say this because of the facts...

1. Linux has too many flavors still to be considered usable for everyone. With the open source of it all, you may have to learn every persons pc individually, unless a Linux god guru, you simply can't. Windows has a base to learn from even if variables are changed on it from pc to pc. This gives Linux a heck of a security advantage though but also cripples it as a common OS for everyone.

2. There is quite a bit of learning for people in order to be good at using Linux. Don't forget, not everyone can be a pc guru or have the time to learn everything. This is also what makes people that do know a lot more, unique and worthy of making money doing it.

3. One last issue, if Linux becomes a common usable desktop OS for all, easy to use, easy to get used to, then what do you have? Windows. You would get stuck with an OS that is easier to target for viruses etc...
So in reality, if you believe that everyone should have Linux then you must also believe that it needs to be like Windows. Scary but true.

Post 36 of 206

open source or windows?

by Kymije - 11/2/05 1:36 PM In reply to: People are Too Lazy! Here's a Great Solution! by eye2fun

I've tried to get away from Windows many times but I always run into the problem of some web sites that only run right if I use Windows so what do I do? I switch back to Mr Gates' product again. Today I ran into a rare web site that didn't function well with Windows so I checked it out and found that it was a university web site that was runing Linux and they offered an unsolicited apology that made it plain that they were in the process of rewriting so their site would run correctly with Windows. In spite of all the emotion, I'm pretty sure that Windows is going to be a contender until the science changes.

Post 37 of 206

(NT) ya you really seem to be an IT Manager:)

by drink - 10/29/05 9:06 PM In reply to: Let the ISP or Router Suppliers take some responsibility by JohnCNR

Post 38 of 206

Let the ISP or Router Suppliers take some responsibility ???

by voyager13b - 11/15/05 9:58 PM In reply to: Let the ISP or Router Suppliers take some responsibility by JohnCNR

I disagree (somewhat). All wireless devices I have used, and that covers quite a range, have made it clear that you should at least change the default admin password when you set up your wireless appliance. Security is in the hands of the person who owns the connection, and there are enough warnings printed on the quick start pages to make a reasonable person take notice.

Beyond that, what responsibility should an ISP or manufacturer be required to take? If people read the thin documents, they should have a basic understanding of the need for protecting the ''control panel'' to their access point, and of the importance of at least minimal encryption on their WiFi net.

Beyond that, I don't think there is anything wrong with using bandwidth on an open WiFi net. I have run WiFi on my cable connection for years, and it has always been open to anyone in range. Some addresses are there pretty much all the time. If I'm doing heavy downloading, and my bandwidth is compromised by freeloaders, I lock them out until I go to bed. Then again, I rarely have bandwidth issues, even when several people are linked.

Likewise, when I'm mobile, I don't feel any sort of moral conflict in using any open link on the list. If it's open, it's open. If the owner of the link wanted to keep all the bandwidth to himself, even when he was not using it, he would have set up a closed net. In that case, I would not even attempt to break in with available tools, as it is clear that I am not invited, and hacking his net would be a moral problem for me.

I don't consider linking to an open WiFi net ''hacking''. It's simply accepting an invitation to share bandwidth. I do it, and thousands of others share as well. As I type this note, there are six other open nets with quality signals available here. I pay my $50 each Month for broadband, and comparing what is available to me vs what I use, I'm happy to share my connection, as I'd still pay the same, even if I took the selfish route and locked other people out.

I think more people should get on the bandwagon and open their connections too. From a security standpoint, there is little difference between open and closed, so long as you enable some form of secure connection. Also, ''war driving'' might involve some hackers, but my take is that the bulk of war drivers only exist to locate and map out open wireless links to the net. Locking your wireless access point to the outside world does NOT reduce your exposure to hackers at all.

Just my opinion :).

Voyager

Post 39 of 206

What's the problem here?

by bbuc - 10/28/05 5:31 AM In reply to: Other advice from our members by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Someone is wronged when harm is done. Here there is no harm done, so no one is wronged. If an individual providing a wireless signal doesn't encrypt, and my using his signal doesn't hamper his use or the quality thereof, who cares, and why should they?

If there was a problem in sharing WiFi it wouldn't be spreading over the country right now in public places.

Share and shut up. This is the stuff of weenies and cable news.

Post 40 of 206

Mainly 'cause I'm paying for the high speed connection!

by tridom - 10/28/05 5:42 AM In reply to: What's the problem here? by bbuc

I'm paying for my high speed cable connection, so why should I let someone else tap into my wireless network for free?

Now, if my neighbor wants to share the cost, and practices secure computing- that is different. I won't mind at all.

Post 41 of 206

I couldn't agree more

by SaraJanel2003 - 10/28/05 9:08 AM In reply to: Mainly 'cause I'm paying for the high speed connection! by tridom

I agree with you 100%. Sharing is good and all, but why should you pay for someone else's Internet access?

Post 42 of 206

That's why your wi-fi comes with a lock

by iixakita - 10/28/05 9:42 AM In reply to: I couldn't agree more by SaraJanel2003

If you whiners would simply turn on the encryption on your network nobody would be able to use what you have paid for. If you choose not to turn it on I would assume that you live in a place where nobody locks their house doors or their car doors and leaves their wallet on the front porch.

And unlike downloading copyrighted material that companies and individuals depend on for their livelihood, by having your signal used you are not deprived in any way. You still have your connection-unless so many neighbors are "sharing" the signal that your speed is degraded.

So encrypt-and quit whining.

Signed
Fully encrypted and all security measures turned on.

Post 43 of 206

RE: "... why should you pay for someone else's Internet...?"

by bwana2 - 11/1/05 12:24 AM In reply to: I couldn't agree more by SaraJanel2003

If you read your bill, I think you'll see you are paying for your own access. If somebody else is using your access that doesn't mean they also have an account with the service provider and you're getting charged for it, does it. Have you seen the invoice with someone else's name and paid for it? That would just be silly now, wouldn't it? So it's really very simple if you take my advice: DO NOT PAY FOR ANY OTHER PERSON'S BILL FROM AN ISP! That way you can ensure that you're not paying for someone else's Internet access!

Post 44 of 206

No Problem At All - Just That You Should Be In The Slammer

by HolyCow! - 10/28/05 6:48 AM In reply to: What's the problem here? by bbuc

Obviously, bbuc is one of the many 20 to 30 year-olds in America who mistakenly thinks that stealing digital products is acceptable. Soooo... how many mp3's have you illegally downloaded over the years, bbuc? And how many of the programs on your computer have you downloaded (stolen) and used a warez site to illegally crack? Face it bud, you're a crook.

"If there was a problem in sharing WiFi it wouldn't be spreading over the country right now in public places."

Huh? Following this logic, I am well within my rights to fill my car's gas tank at the corner station for free. Hey! If there were a problem in sharing the gas supply, there wouldn't be gas stations on every street corner across the country!

The idiocy of your arguments' weaknesses is overshadowed only by your perceived right of entitlement.

Shut up and pay.

Post 45 of 206

making trouble so bare with me

by stoneii - 10/28/05 7:44 AM In reply to: No Problem At All - Just That You Should Be In The Slammer by HolyCow!

the trouble with private wireless netwroks is that they are not like Mp3 and gasoline. In fact unless you have registered and PAYED for restricted airspace your wireless signal is public domain much like the way you use your radio without paying the radio station. It is therefore up to you to restrict who uses it and how if you feel that it is something that you have to do. Persoanlly I think this is were the problem is; for those of us that want secure and safe personal wireless networks there should be more software that helps identify, track and trace those that hack past our wireless SECURITY (if you do not bother to set this up then your network is public domain) For those that do not care about security share at will...in fact the internet should be like a public library anyway...no cost to those that want to inform themselves.

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