Spyware, viruses, & security : Router firewall or ZoneAlarm???
Beware of Trojans
by KAVN - 1/28/05 5:08 PM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmHi!
Many of the above participents mention specific protection against two separate items: spyware and viruses, while router/firewall "only" secures you against hacking.
I would like to mention a third item: Trojans. Neither of the above measures offer specific protection against this (while some protection though). I would recommend either TrojanHunter, a combined scanner and protection, or a free once-and-for-all scan with the free edition of TrojanHunter and then a reliable on-line protection like e.g. BOClean. In this way, you should be optimally protected. Unfortunately this costs a moderate sum, while there (as far as I know) doesn't exist good freeware anti-Trojan programs.
Good luck
KAVN
Software firewall does more than just stop hackers
by JSB462 - 1/28/05 5:36 PM In reply to: Beware of Trojans by KAVNKavn: I have to disagree on one point. You are right about a hardware firewall, but a software firewall does not just protect against hacking. It also stops programs like Trojans and “spyware” from reaching the outside. I believe most anti-virus programs include Trojans as well as virus and worms in their scans. As I understand it, Trojans are programs that attempt to either open your computer (ports) up to outside computers to allow open access to your computer for whatever reason, or report back about what you do, like type passwords. A properly configured software firewall will also keep these programs from getting out, so they cannot do their task. Of course, I have also heard of some that attempt to stop the firewall, as well as attempting to turn off virus protection, so nothing is guaranteed.
Reply
by KAVN - 1/29/05 2:36 AM In reply to: Software firewall does more than just stop hackers by JSB462I'm in no way any expert, just an interested user, so if you're right, the cyberworld is a great deal safer place to be in 
As I understand it, a router/firewall can be set up, so only allowed traffic goes on, and if properly set up disallows malicious outward information to be passed on. Unfortunately that demands a good deal of knowledge about, what's going on - and not everybody has that. Besides, it does not itself stop downloading of Trojans, spyware, viruses and other exotic guests, even if it stops their malicious attempts to get information out.
As far as I know, up-to-the-standard antivirus programs stop a broad range of worms and Trojans as well - but not all! There the specific anti-Trojan software comes in.
Spyware is in no way stopped by any firewall, because an unexperienced (and very easily an experienced as well!) unknowingly allows it to download. It often comes from websites with exciting free offers, and how can one know what downloads together with some seemimgly innocious fun stuff? Surely a firewall doesn't.
Finally, there do exist firewalls, who are practically inpenetrable to hackers, because they integrate deeply in the OS's core and simply shuts down, if any attempt gets too close. E.g. Bitguard.
Kind greetings
KAVN
Trojan Horses
by roperdan - 1/29/05 9:18 AM In reply to: Reply by KAVNThe Latest version of Norton Antivirus / Internet Suite 2005 and ZoneAlarm Pro Suite are specifically designed to stop Trojan horses. The addition of Trojan detection is as far as I can see the only difference between Norton Antivirus 2004 and 2005.
Good news
by KAVN - 1/30/05 3:32 AM In reply to: Trojan Horses by roperdanHi!
I didn't know that, and that's good news of course. Do you know if the same covering exist with new editions of other ant-virus programs and firewalls as well? I use McAfee for the first and two hardwarefirewalls for the later (necessary to achieve boadband in my countryside... ;-)).
If this good development only exists in Norton, I still think my relexions are relevant for those using other solutions.
Greetings from
KAVN
trojans are viruses
by MichaelF - 1/29/05 3:34 AM In reply to: Beware of Trojans by KAVNHi
As I understand it trojans are considered virus's and would be picked up by an up to date virus scanner.
Michael
Attn Moderators
by auggief - 1/30/05 3:55 AM In reply to: trojans are viruses by MichaelFMichael, I hope the moderators comment on this. I've had a different opinion.
Really, it is best to have both.
by F10 - 1/29/05 1:01 PM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmHardware "firewalls" vary greatly in their features and effectiveness, as do software firewalls. A basic NAT router is only a partial firewall solution and so easily circumvented that they really shouln't be called a firewall. Anything that leads one to a false sense of security is dangerous. Add SPI and it is much more effective and can be called a true firewall, but still is only a one way solution. Any firewall must be correctly configured or they could leave you wide open to a semi-skilled attack or robot worm. For instance, if a hardware firewall is set to accept remote administration with the default or weak password, it is pretty worthless. Or if someone added their computer to the DMZ zone, same result.
Note that a hardware firewall usually blindly accepts all outgoing traffic, be it your web surfing or a Trojan sending all your keystrokes and more to some creep. A decent software firewall also checks outbound traffic. If you want good protection, use both.
At least with a decent software firewall you have the benefit of a lot of skilled programmers doing their best to keep their customers out of trouble. I strongly recommend using both. If is down to one or the other, I'd pick a two-way software firewall like Zone Alarm. Definitely don't rely on a basic NAT router all by itself. And if you do use any hardware firewall, take the time to read the owners manual and set it up correctly.
Hardware and Software Firewall
by Photobev - 1/29/05 3:00 PM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmI use both - the Hardware does not stop messages from going out whereas the software does....Safe on both ends.
Fire Wall / Router / Ect.
by daviepoo - 1/31/05 4:40 PM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmHi All;
The router is the first wall of defense. the software firewall is next and a lot smarter, as you can program it to pass or deny any limit of data that you wish.
I have found the perfect solution. Build and use a totally seperate computer for online foolin around, and keep your valuable and essential files on the "good" and unconnected machine. "Never the two to kiss or touch hands". Oh ya, n backup - backup!!!.
Daviepoo
Depends on your IT competence
by topazg - 10/14/05 4:46 AM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmIt depends solely on how well you understand the principles involved. If you a have a reasonably advanced router (Netgear DG834V2 for example) and correctly set it up, no unwanted traffic will come near your computer unless your machine specifically requests it, therefore a software firewall is unnecessary.
However, it is absolutely imperative that you have up to date antivirus protection, and that it scans your machine regularly. If it turns up nothing, likelihood is very high that your machine is clean. If it remains clean and you router is correctly denying all port access from the internet from reaching your machine, then you will be happily safe on the internet.
Router firewall or . . .?
by SpamHater - 10/14/05 5:12 AM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmWith high speed connections, I wouldn't be without the hardware firewall, but it only guards against what was not requested by your computer. If you get spyware or trojans on your computer, it could be sending out requests without your knowledge. Definitely keep good, up-to-date antivirus & spyware protection along with the hardware firewall. As for a software firewall, as long as you have the antivirus and spyware protection and the router firewall, the software firewall is an unneccessary waste of resources. Go to the "shields up" website to test your set-up.
Understand what a firewall does.
by bradleyland - 10/14/05 7:28 AM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmI hear this from my clients a lot. They are under the impression that a firewall prevents viruses from entering the network/computer. A firewall, by definition, does nothing of the sort. Here's what a firewall does do.
Computers communicate with each other over the internet most commonly using TCP/IP and UCP. If you plug your computer into the internet without a firewall, you get a public IP address that is reachable by any other computer on the internet. Without a firewall, you are plugged into a giant network of computers that is no different than plugging an untrusted stranger into a network switch at your house. Anyone on the internet can make requests to your computer to browse files, use printers, probe around for services with open security holes, etc.
A firewall stands between your computer and the public network (the internet). Any unsolicited incoming requests are dropped or returned depending upon how you have set up the firewall preferences. Virtuall any hardware firewall that you buy at Best Buy or Circuit City is set to allow any outgoing request by default. This is where a software firewall comes in handy.
What hardware firewalls don't do: hardware firewalls don't inspect the traffic to see if the file that is coming through contains a virus unless you have a very high-end, expensive piece of equipment. For the most part, that's the job of the anti-virus program running on your computer. Because of this, there still remains the possibility that you will download a specific type of virus called a worm. A worm will propigate by using the network to send a copy of itself to other computers. The mechanism it uses to transport varies, but one of the most common is to create a small mail server on the infected machine and start sending out emails. A software firewall will detect the unexpected outgoing traffic on port 25 (the SMTP mail port) and ask you if you'd like to allow it. This requires that you be aware of which applications should be sending network traffic, but if the program name is cryptic, or you don't recognize it, you should disallow the traffic until an application you recognize complains about it.
Given these factors, it is a good idea to run a hardware and software firewall. The hardware firewall will prevent unsolicited incoming requests, and the software firewall will help you identify unwanted outgoing traffic.
D-Link and ZA
by wndctyboy - 10/14/05 8:10 AM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmI have D-link router for 2 years now, I also blocked port 113 to be totaly stealth and I have ZA also because I like the icon on taskbar when shows the inbound outbound traffic. I also use Trend Micro Internet my favorite antivirus software and I have no penetration in the past 4 years.
You can always try your firewall here https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 and see it for your self.
I use everything
by ncfarthing - 10/14/05 4:40 PM In reply to: Router firewall or ZoneAlarm??? by are_emmI have networked 3 home computers with a wireless setup, using software firewalls on the computers as well as virus scanners and Adaware & Spybot. I did not decrease the levels of anything considering the persons who will use the computers. My philosophy is "better safe than have to straighten out their problems". The persons trying to influence your computer needs all the hinderence you can give them.
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