Digital cameras: Nikon D50/D70s vs. Canon Digital Rebel XT
Nikon D50/D70s vs. Canon Digital Rebel XT
by galen732 - 4/29/05 12:19 PMI am looking to buy an SLR type prosumer digital camera and the Canon vs. Nikon debate has struck again. I am looking for someone (anyone really) who can convince me of some definitive advantages that any of these camera's has over the others. I know the canon is 8MP vs 6MP for the nikons but is this going to make a big enough difference to me in photo quality? Are the nikon lenses that come with the kits really that much better than the new $100 canon lense? Is it worth it to spend the extra $ on the nikon D70s over the D50 or canon? Right now I'm leaning towards the canon with the kit but am afraid that the features being buried in the LCD menu will bother me. Any advice from someone who has actually used both cameras (D70 experience will do) and has noticed differences will be greatly appreciated.
Final Answer?
by fdpiton - 7/2/05 8:01 AM In reply to: Nikon D50/D70s vs. Canon Digital Rebel XT by galen732I am going through the same debate.
I have seen both and the D50 seems to be laid out simpler and have better ergonomics ( for me ).
I was just wondering what your final decision was and why?
More to it then just the pixels
by shadowhawk70 - 7/7/05 5:57 AM In reply to: Nikon D50/D70s vs. Canon Digital Rebel XT by galen732I am looking for the same answers but here is one other issue that come up:
Nikon: Autofocus range: -1 to 19
Canon: Autofocus range: 0.5 to 18
Where the difference is: Lenses with high f values or any low light conditions... ie, any indoor party or evening shots or using most telephoto lenses except for the really expensive ones.
Then again, I guess I could try focusing by myself...
It is puzzling
by rvictor - 7/8/05 7:21 PM In reply to: More to it then just the pixels by shadowhawk70Why don't the users of D70, D50 and Rebel want to share their experiences? Is it not worth it or there are nothing to compare or something else? I am willing to share my one year's worth of experience of how much creative fun I have had with coolpix8700. I have learnt a lot about digital photography and there is plenty more to learn. Only thing I did not like is it is no good for action shooting, unless there is tons of light, and the time between shots is as fast as a turtle! Hence, I have bought a D50, but have not begun playing with yet.
I have the DigiRebelXT
by Acts7 - 7/8/05 7:40 PM In reply to: It is puzzling by rvictorSorry for the delay . I have not made it to these forums much lately. But I must say I have the DigiRebelXT as an upgrade to the DigiRebel. I replaced my original rebel (not the XT) twice. Finally opting for the upgrade to the XT. I could have gone to Nikon. But the choice was simple becuase of the lenses I already had and the quality / reputation of Canon the lens.
I cant really compare the two so please dont expect that. But I can say that the 8 MP over the 6 is HUGE for me. Its that much more that you can zoom in on a subject. And if you are doing macro photography, that extra information (2+ more MP) is a BIG deal.
My first question would be what subjects you are photographing? Landscapes? Macro?(thats extreme closeups btw - like bugs).
My Di.Reb.XT has never let me down. The added features in the XT are LIGHT years of improvement over the original reb. Things such as the flash adjust. (where you can cause your flash when the shutter is closing versus when it is opening). That comes in really handy for portraits when you REALLY want your subject to pop out.
I kid you not when I say the following two photos were shot less than one minute apart.
http://www.sftcministries.com/acts7/IMG_1450.jpg
http://www.sftcministries.com/acts7/IMG_1452.jpg
Impossible you may say? No that is just one of the cool features of the XT. As well as numerous improvements over the initial Rebel in color treatment etc.
Well thats all for now but Im happy to answer questions. Acts7 At SFTCministries dot Com.
D70 Owner Response
by tkmtech - 9/18/05 5:37 PM In reply to: Nikon D50/D70s vs. Canon Digital Rebel XT by galen732I purchased a D70 kit shortly after it came out in 2004. Shortly after buying and using the full auto setting was taking terrific pictures but that's not why most people are looking to buy a prosumer grade DSLR. There are differences and I'm not going to steer you towards the D70/D50/D70s or the Canon EOS Rebel XT but will offer some suggestions and advice so you can make your own decision. If you truly want to make the right choice be prepared to do a lot of reading and some leg work. I'll try to make it a little easier. Ready?
Before buying I did a lot of research, going back and fourth since I own and used a Canon 35mm Film Rebel and many years ago started off my photography hobby getting an Olympus OM1 SLR before stepping up to a DSLR. I would say it's harder now to make a decision since a year and a half later there's more DSLR choices and it would be more confusing if you have not purchased and used a DSLR yet. I was confused initially and even after buying not completely sold on the D70 until using it for over 6 months (but satisfied initially with pictures I was taking, I wanted to dig into the extra features that made this a prosumer camera and that process took a long time, more reading and hands on experience, I'm still learning but having fun). My earlier 35mm Film cameras were terrific at the time but wanted to make the leap into digital photography. I puchased a Canon PowerShot for my daughter but decided a prosumer DSLR was for me after borrowing her camera off and on to get acquainted with digital photography. First off you really need to first decide if you want an advanced DSLR verses a good point and shoot. This is not an easy self evaluation and must be competely honest with yourself otherwise you're going to be likely disappointed in a few months and regret spending a lot of money for something you don't like or will not use to the full potential. Canon makes excellent cameras but I purchased the Nikon D70 Kit and very happy I did but only after spending hours, days, weeks then months getting acquainted with the D70. I don't use SLR film cameras anymore and the point and shoot cameras are nice for those that want to just point and shoot. The D50 has very few short comings compared to the D70 and in some ways the D50 has advantages with less features. If you're looking for more features go with the D70 verses the D70s and do a free Nikon firware upgrade to the D70 and you'll have a D70s (just about). The D50 may even satisfy your taste. I have some suggestions from my expericence using the D70 and my DSLR purchasing research. I didn't like Canon's AF and like you needed to decide if I wanted to go a few hundred $ more for the D70 (at the time it was a EOS 300 Rebel and not the present EOS 350 XT). The Nikon body at the time was right under the $1000 mark and in a kit, adding the zoom lens getting close to $1500. I'm not a professional photographer but narrowed down what I wanted to buy, took the leap but before I did really did an incredable amount of research. I'll narrow the time I spend down to a fraction of what I wnet through but you'll still do quite a bit of reading so it will be very clear on the differences. After all that's a lot of greenbacks for any of the choices.
I've been using the D70 for about a year an a half and very satisfied with the camera but much of your decision making will depend on what you want to use the camera for, how much time you want to spend learning how to use the camera, what your present DSLR experience is and how much time you plan to devote in the future to learn more. Reading the camera manual is not going to be enough so be prepared to spend a long time getting to know the camera whatever you finally buy. If that's not for you reconsider buying an advanced DSLR and get something more basic. I'm sure you probably read many user reviews by now. There's 3 long reviews absolutely essential to read and they will make your decision more clear cut. I've included the links here so you'll be able to read them.
You need to make the ultimate decision and be prepared to make your own trade offs thinking about how you're planning to use the camera.
Canon makes excellent cameras and their current EOS Rebel XT offering will be an excellent choice for many people. I was comparing the earlier EOS 300 Rebel verses the newer EOS 350 Rebel XT. One of the things I liked about the D70 was it powers up instantly verses the slow power up of the EOS 300 (I'm not sure if the 350XT powers up faster). As I looked at some of the features of the Nikon and actually held the Nikor Kit lens, the D70 appealed to me more. The Autofocus and metering with a few other Nikon benefits I liked made my choice clear. When Nikon came out with the D70s, D70 owners were able to upgrade for free doing a firmware upgrade. You can do the same and the D70 can be purchased for less than when it first came out. If you bought the EOS300, there's no firmware upgrade, you would need to buy the current 350XT (but then again it does have 8MP verses 6MP, which I don't consider a major point in overall buying decision).
Here's a link to the new firmware available for the D70 which will make the D70 perform like the newer D70s:
http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_prods=19%2C56&p_pv=2.56&p_cats=186&p_cv=1.186
The firmware brings the D70 up to the D70s:
1-Impove Autofocus to the same as the D70s
2-Better as easier to read menu system as found in the D70s
3-PictBridge setup as in the D70s
I strongly advise reading the long and excellent review by Phil Askey of DPR to get more of an idea of Nikon verses Canon plus what the D70 is actually capable of doing. He does not say one is better than the other:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/
This is one of the better reviews on the Internet and if you can read through the entire review and maintain a high interest level then your interest in digital photography is more than a passing fancy.
The D50 is a terrific camera. The features of the D70 /D70s are intimidating at first and you really need to dig in and use the camera long after the purchase to gain an appreciation of what the camera can offer.
If you finish the review on the D70, read an excellent review of the D50 since the introduction provides a side by side chart of exactly what the differences are between the D70 and D50 and should narrow that choice down for you. You can find that here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/
If you get through both reviews you'll have a very clear understanding of the differences between the 50 and the 70.
After reading above reviews for the D70 and D50 you're ready to take on the review for the Canon:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos350d/
All this reading will take you quite a bit of time but aftwerwards think about 1 more thing before going out to look at the cameras ......
Think about getting additional software such as Adobe Elements or Adobe Photoshop. After you fine tune the D70 Nikon for how you want to shoot beyond Auto then programmed presets or ''P'' mode - Programmed Auto Mode (different from Full Auto Mode) you will probably not need to do retouching but this software will let you do it. Nikon falls short on software and unless you have a good reason to buy the $100 Nikon Control software you're better off getting Adobe Elements (almost like the full blown version of Photoshop but actually a ''lite'' version more suitable for non professionals or those that don't plan to spend a real long time trying to learn the execellent full version of Photoshop). I use a full blown PS and still learning how to fully use the software. Nikon does give you basic software that will work fine for many, again it really depends waht you'll looking to do with digital photography.
Almost there, now comes the fun part.
Find a camera shop that has patience (they should since the camera purchase is big bucks) and allow you to spend time handling and shooting the Nikon D70/D50 and Canon EOS Rebel XT. You should be able to tell which camera is more suited for what you want to do after taking some pictures in the store and having a little time with each of the cameras. After reading the reviews you'll know what to look for and be equipped to make the trade offs of each camera to your personal taste and desired use. You'll feel the difference between the Nikon and the Canon cameras. Don't be swayed with minor spec differences such as ISO100 verses ISO200 and direct more attention to how the autofocus works for Canon and Nikon. You'll also see the larger LCD on the D50 and notice and additional AF mode (AF-S and AF-C, stationary and continueous ony on the D70, so the D50 adds the AF-A for auto) . I personally don't like Canon's AF and lack of spot metering but that's my preference, you might like Canon's AF verses Nikon's AF. I liked the Nikon metering system better, believe Nikor lenses are superior to Canon but that's also an opinion. Canon EOS Rebel 300 took fantastic pictures but opted for D70 flexibility. Again my preference. I did not evaluate the EOS XT since it's relatively new.
The D70 has an Auto mode and the ''P'' mode which gives you a nice way to alter exposure making it like a semi-automatic mode. You'll start using auto mode for awhile until you begin to experiment with the ''P'' (Program Mode)shooting and then other pre - programmed exposure modes. After that you will start fine tuning the D70 to what and how you shoot and begin to appreciate how truely wonderful and flexible the D70 actually is. It's impossible to evaluate all the features no matter how much reading and initial time you spend looking at 3 or 4 cameras. My advice is to look at the AF and decide which is more to your liking first, then if it comes down to the D50 or D70, think about the extra features of the D70. From my understanding the D70 is a bit sharper than the D50 but the D50 has a larger LCD ... trade off's and personal preference. This is why you have to handle the cameras.
CNET reviews are excellent and a good starting point but there's more detail in DPR reviews (maybe too much and too technical for some). You'll need to uncover those individuals posing reviews that are really spec reviewing apart from those that actually own the camera. DPR also has user reviews. There are a lot of reviewers biased either towards Nikon or Canon just from the specification stand point plus other that bought the camera but did not take the time to really learn how to use the camera. That's the major problem reading user reviews. Many of so called major problems with camera review posts are due to the user not understanding how the camera works. I found this true with the whole issue of morie distortion found in the D70 and suppose to be less in the D50. I don't find it a problem. Others seem to get hung up on things that simply are not true.
If you have any specific questions on the D70, please post a question and I'll try to answer as a non - professional photographer and I'm not Nikon or Canon biased. I'm an engineer and maybe that helped getting into using the D70.
It's a very tough choice but if you narrow it down by being honest with yourself about how much time you're planning to devote to learning the features of a camera it should help making a decision between getting a D70, D50 or Cannon Rebel XT.
There's no black and white differences they are levels of gray with user preferences. Try to keep an open mind and don't be swayed by ''spec reviewers''. You really need to handle or test drive whatever camera you eventually decide to buy.
Hope this helps. Tough choice to make.
Good luck.
Refreshing
by Richard1944 - 9/27/05 6:02 PM In reply to: D70 Owner Response by tkmtechI am exactly where Galen was in April and am getting "paralysis by analysis." It was refreshing to read this latest article from tkmtech.
I have one basic question: Is it true that Nikon’s lenses, in the body as well as wide angle and zoom, are pure glass whereas Canon uses a hybrid? The bigger question is: does it make that much of a difference with digital SLR’s? It seems to me way back in the 35mm film days that was a big deal. Do I recollect correctly?
Lens+DSLR vs PnS
by tkmtech - 10/10/05 11:01 PM In reply to: Refreshing by Richard1944Thanks for the kind words about my write up.
Consumer photography has gone light years ahead since the old days of film 35mm SLR's. Point and Shoot (PnS) cameras work surprisingly well. Back in the Kodak Instamatic days Polaroid also had the satisfied the public's need for quick gratification with LandCamera craze providing instant photos. The Polaroid Swinger was an inexpensive way to get instant pictures. All these cameras had fixed lenses and results were very poor compared to what you would get with a 35mm SLR. Huge difference because it was clear cut the lens made a big difference. Years later the difference is not that extreme, you can get excellent results with PnS camera offerings today.
In my opinion most consumers will be content with PnS and DSLR's are more for those that want to tinker and experiment with manual adjustments. Optics on PnS cameras now zoom and are functional compared to the Instamatic days. With that aside you do get a lot of bang for the buck with DSLR's and the interchangeability offered is a big advantage. You'll be able to gather more light, DSLR's work better with action shots and have the ability to take pictures in a wider range of shooting situations. You do need to take the time to understand how to use the camera and the learning curve will inhibit most people.
Nikon's CoolPix line of cameras are hot products and seem to be offering more and more automation than ever before. Canon's PowerShot cameras are very popular and will not dissappoint. PnS cameras offer instant gratification right out of the box but if you think you'll want more from a camera consider a DSLR. Also if you want something compact get a PnS verses DSLR.
Canon Lenses take fine pictures but considering just by feel, Nikon feels far more solid and appear to be much better built. You will pay dearly for that difference.
PnS camera shots can be greatly improved with software adjustments after you shoot (Adobe Photoshop CS or the lower piced Photoshop Elements).
Hope this is getting you closer to where you want to be.
D50 Missing one thing....
by poder2k - 12/9/05 9:16 AM In reply to: Nikon D50/D70s vs. Canon Digital Rebel XT by galen732I own a CP5700.
Why would nikon make the D50 with lest features then the 5700? makes no sense.
oNe of the features I miss the most is the fine tuning of the white balance on the 5700.
I wish people would write about this little details that are never reveal when doing a recomendation or review of a camera.
I think a lot of people are moving into the DSLR and not knowing what they are missing with a camera like the 8800 or the 8080.
It takes a lot of investment in lens and assesories to the a D50 to have the same macro capabilities of the 5700.
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