Miscellaneous laptop discussions : Mac or PC?
Mac or PC?
by dizzam - 8/22/05 3:49 PMHi,
Im been researching notebooks to buy to take to university and have found apple powerbook and acer(most of them) the best ones..
My question is whether its worth changing to mac, because looking at its tech specs it isnt as good as the acer ones (slower processors less ram worse graphics card), tho ive been told that mac os X never crashes.
I would be using the notebook for everything, from games to movie editing to day to day work.
Any views on this would be great as i am running out of time to get 1.
thanks
You may want a Mac.
by R. Proffitt
- 8/22/05 4:05 PM
In reply to: Mac or PC? by dizzam
If you are going to be a Final Cut pro slave, you'll get the Mac and live with it.
For me, I can wait till the Intel Macs ship and then I can run XP and MacOSX... It's not very long till then.
Bob
Variables
by KenSanramon - 8/22/05 6:09 PM In reply to: You may want a Mac. by R. Proffitt
They just came out with new Apple models that are faster than before. However, Apples are always a bit more costly than IBM PC's.
As Bob stated in a way, the real benefit is late next year when Apple moves to Intel chips and you should be able to load the Apple operating system (which will be called Jaguar -- Tiger at present) and the Microsoft Vista operating system side by side (dual boot on same notebook).
So, if you buy an Apple Power pc based notebook now they are nice notebooks (and reliability and service are always near the top) but you will be grimacing when the HARDWARE conversion occurs next year from IBM Power PC to Intel cpus.
The interesting thing on the chip side is IBM is losing Apple but gaining all 3 of the console manufacturers (Sony PS3, Microsoft Xbox 360, Nintendo Revolution) for their next generation games.
And one other interesting note. Intel is naming its energy efficient chips after the wine country. The current Pentium M line is Sonoma. The next version will be Napa. No word yet on whether these will be 64 bit which will eradicate any need to debate the 32 bit Pentium M versus the 64 bit AMD Turion ..........
Acers are mostly sold online although I hear Circuit City stocks some models now. You definitely are better off with Apples if you live in a large city (near an Apple retail store with free service even beyond the 90 day phone service support period).
i wouldnt buy an apple now...
by 101Ares - 8/23/05 5:29 AM In reply to: Variables by KenSanramonapples i do not like i have crashed them so many times trying to run games. yet this could just be me im not an expert at macs. i would wait for intel to ship in. (the cost will probaly drop) and they seem to run hot even commpared to my P4 notebook with one gig RAM. but again i am nothing close to a mac expert.
PC's: More power, more flexible, CHEAPER
by ihs97 - 9/2/05 2:46 PM In reply to: You may want a Mac. by R. Proffitt
The title says it all. If you are someone who wants to do it all including gaming, then there is absolutely NO reason to think about blowing $1000+ dollars extra on a Mac.
Let's do a comparision
Here is a Customized ABS Mayhem G4 PC:
15.4" WSXGA+ 1680x1050 TFT LCD
Intel Pentium M 750
1 Gig of ram
80gig 5400 rpm HD
Nvidia 6600 128mb Ram
8x Dual DVD+/-RW
TOTAL COST: $1700.00
Here is the Powerbook 15" Mac:
15.2-inch TFT Display 1280x854 resolution
1.67GHz PowerPC G4
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Hard Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon
9700 (64 MB DDR)
TOTAL COST: 2,299.00
To sum up...the Mac has an outdated processor compared to the PC, 512Mb less ram, a slower graphics card, and less screen real estate (1280 vs. 1680). All this for $600.00 MORE!! Right on! Give me that Mac!
The whole OS X // Win XP debate will go on ad infinitum, in the end, I've crashed many a Macs running OS X in school, and at work (i'm a graphic designer) and I've crashed many PC's. The stability discussion is the last marketing myth that Apple can hold on to at this point, especially since they can't argue about hardware performance anymore.
I like to quote the CEO of Adobe in regards to Steve Jobs making the Intel move, "Steve, it's about time."
Go with the pc
by sc03979 - 8/24/05 10:35 AM In reply to: Mac or PC? by dizzamTo answer the question mac or pc, for university work you will probably be dealing with microsoft word and might have an easier time with a pc notebook.
And a question of my own, if apple is using intel based chips does that really mean you can use jaguar on a pc based notebook. I doubt it, but I haven't really read up on this.
Apple Jaguar can't be used on IBM PC's but reverse likely
by KenSanramon - 8/24/05 12:12 PM In reply to: Go with the pc by sc03979You won't be able to load the Apple operating system onto anything but an Apple notebook or desktop.
However, articles have speculated (although Apple or Microsoft won't support it) you likely will be able to load Microsoft Vista as a 2nd operating system alongside Apple Jaguar on an Apple computer that is Intel chip based (next year).
Thus, there would be a much larger incentive to buy an Apple computer as you could run both Windows and Apple programs on the same computer as your needs dictated (but the dual operating systems would have to be done by the user -- Microsoft or Apple would not support this). Supposedly 3rd parties may support this as well.
Intel based macs
by dizzam - 8/24/05 1:00 PM In reply to: Go with the pc by sc03979Is jaguar a mac os X version?
well from what i've read only intel mac computers will b able to run mac operating systems and windows (dual boot)
while pc's wont b able to use macs operating systems.
these intelmacs aren't gonna be out before 2007, but if you want more info search the mac magazine sites (macaddict,etc)
hope this helps,
cheers
Wrong Info. About Macs
by cnetter9 - 9/12/05 9:49 AM In reply to: Intel based macs by dizzamDear Dizzam:
I just read the replies to your question. Several people gave you the wrong info. First of all, the next OS X system will be Leopard not Jaguar (this was the name of a previous OS before Panther and now,Tiger).
Leopard will be the new Intel Mac based OS X out in mid to late 2006 or early '07.
Also the person who made the 15 in. PC vs. Mac didn't figure in the fact that Macs are loaded with great software: including the iLife '05 suite: iMovie HD, iDVD, Garageband 2.0 (it lets you create your own music easily), and iPhoto.
As well as a full featured trial version of Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac(including Word).
Even the people at Microsoft (employees in the Mac software division of Microsoft) have said that this includes more advanced and intuitive features than 2003 Office for PCs.
When you count these in the cost starts to level out. Also Apple offers student discounts and special deals on notebooks, software, etc.
I have always had a PC but will be making the switch ASAP.I used Macs at a previous job, have done a great deal of research/comparison, and feel completely comfortable with my decision.
I suggest you go to www.apple.com/switch for further answers, www.microsoft.com/office where you can read about their Mac software products, and visit your closest Mac retail store to actually try out a Mac notebook, and even attend free classes.
Good luck,
cnetter9
Mac & PC
by feversol - 8/27/05 3:23 AM In reply to: Mac or PC? by dizzamI have the Mac PowerBook 15inch G4 laptop and am using it as a desktop replacement (for a dead Win 98 SE). I thoroughly like it. I have MS Office Pro w/ Word, Excel, Entourage (Outlook-type & project hub) and PowerPoint. If I need to run a Windows program, I run it in Virtual PC under Win XP. There is DB software available but not Access (which I've never liked anyway).
So far, I see no downside. My documents are compatible with any PC. However, I would question the school to see if there might be limitations. My niece was given an IBM Thinkpad by her school though I noticed both PC & Mac User info at the school Web site.
Macs are supposedly known for their gaming and video editing ability, though I doubt I would use that capability.
No crashes, and It Works!
The problem with buying any Mac right now
by mustangj36 - 8/29/05 8:32 PM In reply to: Mac or PC? by dizzamis that it will be obsolete by this time next year. Panther will be written for Intel based Macs only so you will not be able to upgrade any current PowerPC machine to it, much in the same way that Macs designed for OS9 could not be upgraded to OS X. This is planned obsolescence by Apple and not a very nice thing to do to customers who will buy Macs during the coming year at full retail prices.
If you were to buy a powerful enough multimedia type Windows laptop today, you'll almost certainly be able to upgrade it to Vista when it comes out next year and then you'll have what amounts to a brand new machine for the price of an upgrade.
Mac or PC? For school, go Mac.
by Maxwell De Long - 9/12/05 11:02 AM In reply to: Mac or PC? by dizzamI am a college student at UMass and I use an Apple 14'' iBook. For me, the real choice between a Mac and a PC was servicibility, stability and battery life. Genuinely, Macs are simply more stable than PCs. They crash less often, and in the instances that they do (I have managed to crash mine once in the 3 months I have owned it) the OS automatically saves everything so you can restart where you left off. Also, most college campuses have an authorized Apple specialist on hand, and so long as you are within your one-year-warranty time, you can take it to them to fix should anything bizzarre happen. With most PCs, especially Dell or Gateway, you have to send it away, which ends up being costly and inconvenient (it is really hard to be with out a computer at college even for a day). Finally, even the lowest Mac, a 12'' iBook, will get about 6 hours out of its battery on the ''Normal'' setting for battery usage. This is about 2 or 3 times more than an average PC notebook. And like someone has said before, the Mac comes loaded with features that are really nifty, especially for people like myself who like to play with music and video. If you are looking for a notebook to play games on, go PC, but for everything else, the Mac is the superior option.
As a note, the switch to an Intel chip does not mean that Windows will run on a Mac, and vice versa. Windows is an x86 application, and Steve Jobs has said nothing about Mac going to an x86 platform. Odds are that Intel will simple produce the PowerPC processors that are currently in Macs now.
Misconceptions abound...
by ihs97 - 9/13/05 4:52 AM In reply to: Mac or PC? For school, go Mac. by Maxwell De LongMyth 1: Mac laptops have a longer battery life:
Powerbook G4 (15 inch) estimated Battery Life: 4.5 hours
Gateway M460S(some random 15 inch PC with a pentium M processor) estimated battery life: 7 hours
Both of these estimated battery life numbers are from their manufacturers. Cnet tested the gateway with its business benchmark running and got 6.96 hours out of it.
There is no test for the Mac except for playing a DvD which ran 2.7 hours, which is nothing to look down upon. I tend to just look at the manufacturers numbers, sure they can be a bit inflated on both ends, but a difference in 2.5 hours even by manufacturers numbers is going to represent a real world gain, no matter what test you use.
Myth 2: Macs are better for 3D applications including Maya and or gaming
Someone in this thread mentioned Macs are better for games, which is by far, the biggest myth of the bunch. Just look at the graphics solutions for the Macs, they are last years decent graphics solutions (i.e.: ATi 9700 cards) instead of the new ATi X700, or Nvidia's 6600 or 6800 graphics solutions.
I don't need to find raw data proving this point. The ATi 9700 platform is just inferior to its new conterpart the X700 or the x800 or Nvidia's new 6600 and 6800 cards. If you need more info, go to www.tomshardware.com and check the benchmarks for ATi's 9700 cards vs. the new X series or Nvidias 6x series.
Myth 3: Macs are loaded with great software that PC's aren't: including the iLife '05 suite: iMovie HD, iDVD, Garageband 2.0 (it lets you create your own music easily), and iPhoto.
To some degree this is true. But once you look a bit deeper, you begin to realize that this software--though fun, is not going to feed the professional or even savvy amateur.
iMovie is a great application, I would argue that it is more advanced than Windows MovieMaker. But, for only $47 dollars, you could purchase Pinnacle Studio 9 which is much more feature rich than either of these two programs. Or you could buy SONY's Vegas Movie Studio complete with a DVD creator for $80.00. Of course, if you are just trying to quickly cut together a little home film, you will be hard pressed to notice a difference between iMovie and Windows MovieMaker. One thing you may notice is the WMV file format's superior ability to compress a file compared to Quicktime--too bad support for WMV on a Mac is a bit buggy.
iDVD: Fun simple little DvD creator. This is a limited DVD creator, but very simple to operate. There are a multitude of programs that do this, they range in price from $20.00 - $50.00 as stand alones. If you are serious about interface design, you wouldn't use any of these programs including iDVD, you'd use Macromedia Director.
Garageband 2.0: again, another nice added feature that will please the casual dabbler, but once you get into it, even as a serious hobby, you will quickly outgrow this application. A serious hobbyist would do better with Acid Music Studio 5 for $70.00, or the Pro version for $260.
iPhoto: not a bad little photo organizer/retoucher. The feature set is quite limited though, you will get more functionality out of either ACDsee 7.0 for $47 or Adobe Photoshop Elements 3.0 for $80.00.
In the end, you would need to spend approximately $200.00 to get the apps that are similar to the iLife series. The difference? These applications offer much more functionality than what the iLife suite provides, but then again, you have to spend $200.00 whereas the apple products are free. But again, how much more did you spend for that mac that has an inferior processor, less ram, and last years graphics solution? 500 dollars? 1000 dollars?
Everyone has opinions, & "hineys", Macs are better than PCs
by educateme - 9/15/05 6:23 AM In reply to: Misconceptions abound... by ihs97If you go to www.apple.com/education you can find lower cost student deals including a Red Tag sale area in the Student Online store at Apple, often saving up to 40% off. The iBook will run at least 4 hours, and a Powerbook at least 3.25 hours on a charge, and there are longer life high capacity batteries available.
The centerpice of this discussion is really about 2 things, how much money you can spend, and how much time you have to waste. Macintosh OS X Tiger is so different than prior Mac OS X systems, and leaps and bounds better thna Windows XP that you will find you actually get more done on a Mac. a PC will have you doing updates, fixes, virus repair and monthly Microsoft Critical updates that the Mac users really dont need to bother with EVER.
I have sold and supported Windows and Macintosh for over 12 years, the number of problems on Windows is absolutley higher, more time consuming and full of new Microsoft gotchas, as they try to force users thru an upgrade path that is based on them making money and You spending more time & $, the goal of Windows is to be like a Mac OS X system, they are years behind in that regard.
The level of integration and ease of use, reliability and form and function is hands-down better on Apple, you really do get what you pay for. I know everyone has an opinion, we all have "butts" too, but the XP system will never be the level of quality that OS X is, Microsoft just does not work that way. MSFT is a least common denominator product, whats good for the masses must be good enough for you too, that is how MSFT works, and upgrades.
Apple on the other hand is an "experience" company....they make sure that the Apple product gets out of the way of your creativity, and the OS is not the centerpice of the system, the user IS. Windows is nothing like this in that regard, it is a true co-dependent relationshop, requiring numerous nights and weekends to maintain it.
You might spend more $ on a Mac up front, but it will be the last money you have to spend on babying the system. Windows will keep "milking" you for years to come.
As for the next Apple OS X upgrade, Leopard, it will be out next year, ahead of Vista, and will be better still. Vista will be trying to catch up to Tiger, by then Apple will have raised the bar again, Vista is a follower, it is not a leader, and right now Vista is nearly vaporware.
I suggest you go look at Apples, ask people who own them, and if possible compare them side-by-side. The video, battery life, weight, ease of using the keyboard, drives etc will all be clearly evident when you can touch them both.
In summary, a Windows XP system is a "computer" whereas the Apple Macintosh is an "instrument" it really is a precision product built to help a user be more productive from the out of box experience, you will be pleased with Apple, and the numerous applications such as iLife and MS Office for Mac, there is nearly every feature you will need in OS X.
And dont blind yourself with the Intel, Mac switch on processors...if you wait to buy one til then you will miss a lot of great things you can be doing while the markets finally shift, and you dont really want to be buying the first version of any Man-made product no matter who makes it, Apple, Intel or Microsoft. Thus Vista will be a chance place to place your bets. OS X Tiger is truly the best OS for your needs. Go with Apple.
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