Windows XP: what is the best file format to save for picture printing?
what is the best file format to save for picture printing?
by preppystud - 8/3/05 9:56 AMafter i edited the picture, what is the best file format to save for pic printing, such as tiff, bmp, gif, jpg?
thanks.
Since you write 'best'.
by R. Proffitt
- 8/3/05 10:16 AM
In reply to: what is the best file format to save for picture printing? by preppystud
That could mean lossless compression. You need to stick to TIFF or even BMP which will be quite large files but the non-lossless compression would be best for most definitions. You can try the JPEG at quality 100% but even then some quality can be lost.
More definition of best may be required.
Bob
and...
by Dick White - 8/3/05 12:50 PM In reply to: Since you write 'best'. by R. Proffitt
you need to address the "where did it come from" as much as 'where is it going to." There are several levels of compression available in the jpeg format, with more compression = lost information. An original in a lossy level of jpeg, even when resaved as tiff or bmp, does not recover any of the quality lost when it was in the earlier jpeg format.
dw
mm.
by preppystud - 8/3/05 1:48 PM In reply to: and... by Dick Whiteso should i just print those pics without editting?
i plan to print those pics at walmart, etc.
A little more detail would help.
by R. Proffitt - 8/3/05 1:59 PM
In reply to: mm. by preppystud
For instance if you had some 5 megapixel picture in the midrange 50 to 80 % quality setting of the JPEG options, you may find that 3x5 prints will not show any issues.
Bob
thanks.
by preppystud - 8/4/05 9:14 AM In reply to: A little more detail would help. by R. Proffitt
thanks for all the help.
from what i have read so far,
i will try to save it into tiff after editting. so i can get the best print result.
if the files are too big, i will save them in bmp.
jpg is the least choice.
What is the best picture format?
by MadGorilla - 8/5/05 6:24 AM In reply to: thanks. by preppystudEven with today's huge hard drives, you would be astounded at how fast you can fill one up with pictures in tiff or bmp format.
While it is true that jpg loses a little compared to bmp, at the levels most people are going to be operating the average user can't tell the difference between a picture stored in bmp format and jpg format.
I've found that jpg in an 800x600 pixel frame size and saved at 100% quality level is plenty good up to 8x10 print size. If you're a fanatic about detail, then use a 1024x768 pixel frame.
Just as with film, the size you need to end up with determines the format you start with. If you plan on making large prints above 5x7 then you need to use a base picture with a larger frame size to avoid grain and fuzzy details.
With that in mind, I recommend the following: 640x480 for pictures to be shown only on your PC screen and no bigger than 3x5 in print. 800x600 for PC or for prints up to 8x10 if maximum detail is not absolutely necessary. 1024x768 for detailed 8x10, and 1280x1024 for 11x17. All values in pixels, and at 100% quality in JPG format.
Even the larger frame sizes will still let you save a lot more stuff on your drive in jpg than bmp or till, and for all but the most critical work, the average person will never know the difference.
An easy way to eyeball it on the fly is to use a good picture editor/organizer like CompuPic to increase your source one frame size at a time until the detail starts to fall off, then back off to the previous level. It won't be long before you get a feel for what you need on the "input" side to get the desired "output."
Low DPI just doesn't cut it
by pigonthewing - 8/5/05 9:20 AM In reply to: What is the best picture format? by MadGorillaI don't know what kind of printer you're using, but using 800x600px for an 8x10" print, or 1280x1024 for 11x17" nets you around 75dpi, which will produce terribly pixelated and jagged looking shots. They're the ones that people see and immediately comment, "Oh, you printed these from your digital camera, didn't you?"
If you want a quality printout, something that rivals 35mm film developed at a photolab, take a few steps in the right direction:
First, go out and buy yourself a dedicated dye-sub photoprinter (the Epson Picturemate was the best $200 I spent this year).
Next, print at 300DPI when possible, and never below 150. This means that a 5x7" requires 1500x2100px; an 8x10" needs 2400x3000px. The high pixelcount is not an outrageous request when you consider the abundance of >4mp cameras and the hundreds of GBs readily available today. A single DVD+R/W disc can hold over 4GB of data!
While you're at it, activate the printer's enhanced detail setting, which increases the number of passes the print head makes on the page. Some may complain of long print times, but I certainly don't mind waiting an extra few seconds if I end up with a shot that people can't distinguish from 35mm film and lab developing.
I do agree with your comments on compression; you face the law of diminishing return when jumping from JPEG to BMP or TIFF -- the tenfold increase in filesize just isn't worth the 1-2% gain in quality achieved by lossless compression. But compression can only take you so far, and DPI still reigns king when it comes to making prints.
Dye-sub and compression
by mediadiva - 8/5/05 10:36 AM In reply to: Low DPI just doesn't cut it by pigonthewing1) I'm curious... do you know what the dye-sub's average cost per 4x6" print is? I send my files to a lab for prints for friends and family, but have held off on printing my own favourites for albums until I find the best compromise between quality and cost effectiveness.
2) Re: resolution and compression
I agree with pionthewing that there's no reason to reduce the resolution, considering how accessible high quality cameras, relatively cheap 1Gb CF/SD cards, DVD's and massive hard drives are. I take massive numbers of photos and use them in my design work and as reference for painting, and if you're likely to ever want to crop the images or print them larger, it's important to save them as large as is reasonable for your speed and storage needs with minimal compression. Since jpgs are lossy, you want to minimize the number of times you tamper with the file and resave it too.
I rarely shoot RAW or TIFs because of the great drain on camera resources, but I keep 2 copies of each max. res / highest quality jpg when I download them. One goes to an "unaltered photos" directory in a neatly named folder. The other goes into a folder with a matching name in "My Pictures" - and that's the file that I will rename, edit in Photoshop, metatag, and save alternate TIF versions of for printing. Both directories get archived regularly to an external hard drive and DVD.
That way I always have recourse to the untampered version, saved a minimal number of times if I want to reuse it for something else.
$0.29 Picturemate Prints
by pigonthewing - 8/5/05 1:40 PM In reply to: Dye-sub and compression by mediadiva$0.29/print, ink and paper included.
Epson sells a specialized kit for the Picturemate for $29 that includes 100 sheets of 4x6" glossy photo paper, and a 6color/6jet dye sub cartridge with enough chemicals for 100 full color prints.
If you print heavily in one color (sepia tones for instance) it will burn out that color prematurely, but for balanced shots, I've had no problems getting the full life out of a cartridge.
At that price, you're better off doing it at home than going down to the corner to pay $0.40 or $0.50 that many of the kiosks charge. Kiosks also don't have Photoshop.. 
Nothing beat AgX Prints from your digital camera.
by Kurt Sanger - 8/5/05 6:31 PM In reply to: $0.29 Picturemate Prints by pigonthewingOur local grocer sells Digital 4"x6" AgX prints for $0.25 apiece. You burn a CD or bring in your SD Card and get your prints within an hour.
Walmart will beat that price.
The Digital Thermal Prints are a little more expensive, but you get them without the wait, and they don't run when you get them wet.
Or you can print digital thermal prints at home. Kodak sells an EasyShare Printer Dock for Home. A 40 pack of media is around $20 at Walmart for a cost of $0.50 each. But you get to print them at home whenever you want. Its great at parties, and the kids get a kick out of watching the color develop as it prints, Yellow, Magenta, and then Cyan. You can get these prints wet too, and you don't have to wait for the ink to dry before you touch them.
Another "best"
by Yew Anchors - 8/3/05 2:46 PM In reply to: what is the best file format to save for picture printing? by preppystudStrictly speaking, Bitmap (bmp) would be the "best" since it's uncompressed. Even lossless compression won't compare.
However, PNG is a format that's both lossless and gets pretty damn good compression ratios for most things. The one drawback is that it's not as widely supported. Virtually all graphics programs will support it, Firefox supports it, IE supports everything but the transparency effect last I knew... A few of the more esoteric programs might not support it however.
So unless you're dealing with images that are low color, like say comics, PNG would probably be the "best" when you consider all the various aspects. If you're dealing with low color images, GIF works wonders. It's 256 color limit helps keep file sizes down below what other formats could... Provided you don't need more than 8-bit color.
PNG features
by pdminer - 8/6/05 8:00 AM In reply to: Another "best" by Yew AnchorsAnother great feature of the PNG format is that it supports alpha channels and transparency if you plan on using that capability beyond just pictures. Only TIF and GIF offer that as well, but PNG is lossless compression so you get the best of all the features.
At 29 cents a print
by glb613 - 8/4/05 3:08 AM In reply to: what is the best file format to save for picture printing? by preppystudwhy don't you try one of each and judge for yourself?
The unit price is small...
by jas0nhe - 8/4/05 3:40 AM In reply to: At 29 cents a print by glb613But multiple prints could rack up a lot of $$$. If it's a standard print, I'd just use whatever format the photo started with.
-Jason
http://www.uni.uiuc.edu/~jasonhe/
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