Mac OS X: Mac OS-X or Windows XP - Which one is most user friendly?
Windows or Linux over Mac, any day
by bblackmoor - 6/3/05 7:17 AM In reply to: Mac OS-X or Windows XP - Which one is most user friendly? by dj_white_riceI'm a programmer. I typically use Linux and Windows. A little over a month ago, I got a new job, and at this new job I was required to use a Mac (specifically a PowerBook running OSX), which the company provided. I was thrilled: I had nearly bought a PowerBook last year, but got a Windows machine instead because it was half the price.
I did my best to learn the new platform, but the more familiar I became with the Mac, the more frustrated I became. The Mac makes simple tasks difficult, and complicated tasks impossible.
After a month of this, I was proficient at using the Mac, but I was so frustrated that I was angry all day, every day. I quit.
Despite their propaganda, the Mac is NOT user friendly. Both Linux (running KDE) and Windows are much friendlier: they actually permit me to get my work done.
RE:
by Impreza WRX - 6/3/05 7:32 AM In reply to: Windows or Linux over Mac, any day by bblackmoorROFL!!!
The one thing that bugs me about Macs is the frikin' stock one-button mouse!
Who would think that a one-button mouse is sufficient these days?! I want to right-click, dammit!
Please tell me the modern Macs have at least two buttons now...
right-clickety-click
by littlefaith - 6/3/05 12:20 PM In reply to: RE: by Impreza WRXI totally agree. Right-click rules! Even that is not enough. I want my scroll button and the fourth thumb. Even using my Wacom pen tablet, I want to right-click. One of the biggest frustrations when sitting down to Mac.
Right cick works on both platforms...
by mynameiscoffey - 6/3/05 11:16 PM In reply to: right-clickety-click by littlefaithRight-clicks are natively supported on both platforms...
So are scroll wheels...
I have a logitech mx900 bluetooth mouse on MacOSX 10.4 (Tiger) and the scroll wheel as well as all 8 buttons work just fine, plug in any scroll wheel/multi button mouse and go to town
Windows and Linux over Mac, any day
by bblackmoor - 6/4/05 7:51 AM In reply to: RE: by Impreza WRXIt's not just the stupid mouse. That can be remedied by buying an aftermarket mouse. It's EVERYTHING about the Mac interface. NOTHING in the Mac is user friendly. The Dock, the menus, the Finder, the menu bar thing at the top of the screen, the desktop -- EVERYTHING in the Mac seems to be designed to deliberately frustrate the user. Trivial functionality which is easily accessible in Windows and on Linux (using KDE) is either difficult or impossible to achieve on the Mac. The Mac is like a Windows computer that's been given a lobotomy.
The Mac makes simple tasks difficult, and complex tasks impossible. Do not believe the propaganda: the Mac is NOT user friendly.
Nothing in OS X is user-friendly?
by dtruett1 - 6/5/05 11:33 AM In reply to: Windows and Linux over Mac, any day by bblackmoorIt would be useful if you prefaced this by saying how long and often you used the respective systems. I used to drink Pepsi all the time - Coke seemed second-rate. Now I drink coke and the opposite is true.
You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that Windows is VERY user-unfriendly, but I won't make a pronouncement that Windows is like a Mac where a bunch of engineers got drunk and tried to make everything as arcane, ugly, and unsecure as they could. Oops - I just did. Sorry about that!
Oh?
by rinion - 11/12/05 7:52 PM In reply to: Windows and Linux over Mac, any day by bblackmoorNow sir, you have written some strong words in that post!
As appears to be a common trend among posters in this forum, I will first tell you a bit about my experience with computers (keep in mind, though, I'm just a kid who is probably in over his head by posting here 
).
I started out on DOS in the late 80s/early 90s at the age of 7. Then I started learning win3.1. I learned the basics of win95 the year it came out. I learned win98 to the point where my "computer savvy" programming relatives would ask me for help. I learned win2k. Then I bought a killer Acer laptop with XP pro. I'll be frank, for me, who had known nothing but windows all my life, XP was an interesting transition full of much jubilation and rejoiceing. The taskbar was blue! The popup balloons told me what popups used to! I dearly loved XP--until I grew sick of losing documents to the blue screen of death, losing battery life to multiple restarts, having plug and play devices that wouldn't play (like an internal card reader), and getting viruses a day and a half after I got the machine (yes, I had Norton Antivirus on it).
Four months later, I came across the Apple website. After looking at iLife and countless forums on sites such as this one, I made the brash decision to by a bottom-line mac mini. Keep in mind, I'd never seen the OS work except on the demo movies Apple has on their site (demonstrating expose, etc), and few of my friends or relatives (hardcore wintel advocates) supported my purchase. However, when the thing finally came, I took to it like ketchup to a hot dog. I found the difference of keyboards at first a little confusing (for 5 minutes), but then, once I got the hang of it, it became second nature.
I love the Dock, because it keeps my projects at my cursor-tips,
I love spotlight because it's so fast and gives such detailed results,
I love the "menu bar thing at the top of the screen" because it frees up space on my desktop for my documents,
I love having the easy-to-use-control pane on the Dock,
I love the command+v icons taken from any image or video clip
I love the ease of transfer of photos from my digital camera to my HD (which takes twice as much thinking as on my laptop)
I love expose,
I love the Finder and its customize-ability
I love the desktop CD drive icons that disappear when the drive's empty,
I love the way it knows how to standby,
I love how I've only restarted the thing ~9 times in the past 2 months,
I love it all.
To make this review completely honest, it behooves me to include the things I don't like:
I don't like the way my RAM fills up, even when only Mail and Safari are running (note: the computer remains responsive whether that RAM is full or half full),
Also, I wish that instead of just the two color schemes (blue and charcoal), they threw in some rainbow colors (orange, purple, red, etc.) so that the apple icon on the top left of the screen, and the spotlight icon on the top right could change to some hot color. Even better would be a color wheel....
My beefs are pretty minor. The Ram 'problem' is hardly relevant, because I normally run like 10 programs at every given moment (iCal, iTunes, VLC, Word, Keynote, Activity Monitor....) and there is still room for more; the color thing is just because I like a change of scenery.
(However, I do know that if you do want to tweak the heck out of XP (such as change the colors of the taskbar), you need to assume the win98 look, which is terrible to behold.)
My understanding of the words "Trivial functionality" as you put it is stuff like the web page as a desktop feature of windows, or the web frame thingies that you can use to have multiple web pages on your desktop without having IE open. I have spent countless hours working on those two features alone, and I can say that I don't miss them in the least. Not with Dashboard, which does the same job only better.
You may also be refering to folder slideshows and filmstrip previews (or whatever they're called; terminology eludes me sometimes, please forgive). Well, in my experience, those previews are handy when they work; however they don't always work. I have about 1 in 20 pics that won't open with that handy preview. This means that I have to open them in something other than Windows Picture and Fax Viewer.
You may also be refering to the ejecting of digital cameras and flash drives. Or installing/uninstalling programs. Or changing a hundred pictures' names from "PICT00x.jpg" to "Camping 00x.jpg" without third party software. Or customizing the finder (any file can be stuck up there on the top or on the left) vs. customizing the windows explorer window (which has been severely limited in XP. It used to be HTML that could be tweaked and improved with flash animations, Javascripts and background audio; now it can't even change the left hand bar--you can only choose which back/forward etc. buttons you want on the top).
Anyway, I thought your post inaccurate in every respect. In my mere three months of experience on a mac, I have had no trouble breaking my 13-year-old habits and adapting to these new Mac methods, which often take less time, less effort, and less frustration to learn and execute than their equivalents on any windows OS.
Correct me in the matter if I'm wrong, but please be more specific if you do. What do you hate about the dock? What complex task can't you do in OSX?
R
2 button wheel mice... what about Laptop users?
by ackmondual - 10/19/05 2:14 PM In reply to: RE: by Impreza WRXYou would think that Mac supports it, it would come with a 2 button wheel mouse. But no, instead, we get slick looking, futuristic looking one button mice bundled with Mac OSX systems instead. While they look nice, I want the functionality of a wheel and 2nd button FIRST, then the cosmetics SECOND. I don't see why they can't do this. It's not like M$ patented the 2 button mouse and prevents other manufacturers from using that design
And while desktop users can just plug in a new mouse, how would laptop users add another mouse button to their laptop? They would be condemned to always have to carry a travel 2 button mouse with them and plug it in everytim ethey want 2 phsycial buttons to work with.
I agree with the other poster. U need to let us know how long u've been using OSX. TIme makes a big diff. Most ppl i've met say winXP is confusing at first, but later on, they master it and it's much easier to get around.
I suppose another nice thing with macs is no need for extra drivers, codecs, etc. that winXP has to deal with, but meh, that's only going by Apple's commercials.
NOTE, I've only used OSX for a few minutes. Everything mentioned may need correction.
(NT) It will
by mrmacfixit
- 10/19/05 4:23 PM
In reply to: 2 button wheel mice... what about Laptop users? by ackmondual
Obvious Bias.
by bill Kline - 6/3/05 8:43 AM In reply to: Mac OS-X or Windows XP - Which one is most user friendly? by dj_white_riceThis post was obviously written by someone with a good bit of experience with Windoze eXasPerating, and possibly a good bit of work with Classic MacOS, but has just barely got his feet wet with MacOSX. From the sounds of it, he's using 10.1, or maybe 10.2(Jaguar)
I come from the opposite end of experience. I started with a Mac 128K, and welcomed each new version of MacOS. I was very comfortable and competent with MacOS9. I finally bit off MacOSX with 10.1. The learning curve was scary, and frankly, 10.1 couldn't do everything OS9 could do. But I was getting it fairly comfortable when Jaguar came along. That was a BIG improvement, and fixed most of the frustrations I had with 10.1. Then Panther came along and answered squarely every one of your objections to OSX. I've not opened Classic OS9 a dozen times since I got Panther, and almost didn't reload it with Tiger. But I still need a HyperCard stack occasionally, so I'll keep it.
Meanwhile, I obtained VPC with Windoze eXasPerating mainly because Delorme wouldn't port Street Atlas to OSX. That is the most exasperating thing I've ever beat my head against a wall with! Fortunately, I now have Route 66, and though I don't like it as well as StreetAtlas for Mac, I sure prefer it to having to use Windoze eXasPerating to use StreetAtlas.
Now, Tiger is here, and has so far eclipsed eXasPerating that NitroZac and Snaggy hit the nail straight on the head with their Apri 29 Joy of Tech comic
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/678.html
(NT) Hilarious cartoon, thanks
by mrmacfixit - 6/3/05 8:50 AM
In reply to: Obvious Bias. by bill Kline
User wars: PC versus Mac
by HeartzX2 - 6/3/05 9:28 AM In reply to: Mac OS-X or Windows XP - Which one is most user friendly? by dj_white_riceAs a PC user from the DOS days, and for the last two and a half years a MAC user, I can offer a perspective from the non-technical camp. It is fair to recall that at one time their creators were a team, but they eventually split, creating that fork in the road.
At first glance, I found the MAC terminology extremely simplified compared to the PC. I attributed this to the early days of Apple's entry into the school systems, making the language understandable to young students. However, navigating the MAC system was kind of like learning Spanish after having spoken English all my life.
What made it a even more challenging was learning the OS9 and then having to switch to OSX after only a year; not much different from Windows98 to XP, but it took a little remapping.
Mac and PC are becoming more like each other now, probably in an effort to win more Mac users. And the newest Mac's even offer the ability to switch between Windows and OSX.
Since Mac users will tell you that most graphics applications are superior to those that are PC based, I finally had to bite the bullet and learn the Mac. I now use those applications in newspaper page layout and in photo and video editing.
Like hiking an unfamiliar trail, you simply need to understand the pathway. Since I prefer to stumble around and learn it on my own, I've not yet mastered Mac, but I do have a good working knowledge. I have also taken a few classes in Mac based applications, which helped immensely.
I find the navigation of files in Windows Explorer not that much different from the List/Columns that Mac offers. It can be apples and oranges at times, but patience is the key and practice unlocks the door.
The installs are very easy on Mac's, and the uninstalls are superior to a PC, since you just drag the program to the trash. No nasty leftovers to deal with like in Windows, which minimizes the mold in the refrigerator.
As far as defragging goes, the newer PC systems aren't recommending it like the old ones did, and if Windows did a better job of uninstalling stuff, you wouldn't need to defrag a drive. A registry cleaner could be a more efficient way to go.
By just doing some spring cleaning and clearing out old files you know you don't need will free up valuable storage space. The systems know where to find it and moving things unnecessarily can bog down the process and interfere with your settings. From what I've read on defragging it's hard on your drive and can lessen the life expectancy. A Mac doesn't even need it.
I like the way you can hide the dock on a Mac OSX, it feels like less steps than opening a new application on a PC. I don't see a problem launching programs; the ones most used can be located in the dock, and the rest are as accessible as on a PC, as well as the trash receptacle. System Preferences are easy to find and work with also.
Of course, Mac's best claim is it's security and that alone could be a good reason to get one. Think of Windows as a screen door to your system, while the Mac boasts a steel door.
I still haven't loaded Windows SP2 yet, I've heard too many horror stories about system failures. The updates Mac offers are easier to load and pretty much self install.
Don't get me wrong, I love my PC, I practically live on my Dell laptop, but when I work in graphics or video, my G4 dual processor is the Ferrari of choice. It runs very clean and never lets me down.
The downside of the Mac's are the price tags, but keep in mind: You get what you pay for!
Do your homework and test drive a few models before you make a choice. Best place to do so is at your local community college's library. It also doesn't hurt to take a couple classes, it's more fun to stumble around with others than by yourself, and you get a support system in your new found classmates.
The choice all boils down to what you need your system to do and the comfort of the operating system to you; kind of like a Chevy versus a Ford, it will always be a matter of preference.
a word about sp2
by grimgraphix - 6/4/05 4:18 PM In reply to: User wars: PC versus Mac by HeartzX2Heartz
I bought an emachine celeron 320 yadayada last year for my nephew with sp2 preloaded and it was a dream to play with...in the meantime I loaded sp2 on me mums dell 2400 POS and it runs horible. I have not initialized and reloaded the os from scratch but it MIGHT make it run better...still...all the nightmare stories I hear about sp2 seems to be from machines that were running original xp or machines with amd processors (also the anti pirating...I mean extra customer security...yeah thats it, extra security! conflicts with some programs) that had dvd ripping suites seemed to have the most problems.
I do graphics and love the performance of the os10 Panther plus the ability to have several programs open at once with out going blue screen (did have a hicup until I upgraded the ram) I'm jellous that you get to run the dual processors!!
I have my own issues with both systems and use both systems on a daily basis.
Grim
Pc vs Mac
by gwats1957 - 10/14/05 7:35 AM In reply to: User wars: PC versus Mac by HeartzX2Boy, this question really started a free for all but your answer was the most balanced and logical I've read so far.
I've been a Mac user since system 7.5 so I've seen ten years of development on the Mac platform. I bought my current desktop, which was originally a 733 MHZ G4 in 2001. It is now a 1GHZ desktop with an 8X superdrive with 500 Gigs of drive space on 5 internal drives running OSX Tiger. I have two iPods that I update daily using either firewire or the new USB 2.0 PCI card I just installed.
The next and last upgrade will be a 2 GHZ processor upgrade card and after that I willl buy a G5 tower and do another 4+ years of upgrades on that machine also.
The mac platform is smooth, elegant and very easy to use and scalable.
My PC buddies come to me when they need to get something done TODAY. I recently did pictures for a friend's memorial service. Using iPhoto and my Epson R200, we turned out several portrait sized pics
for the service and the immediate family. I also surf the net, do my banking, bill paying burn DVDs and CDs, edit movies and a bunch of other things on my mac with never a doubt.
Windows XP may be a better system for some but my attitude is: If it isn't broken, why fix it?
I'm heading to Thailand in 3 weeks. I'm taking 3 digital cameras along. Each day I'll dump their smart card's content into my G4 powerbook, launch iPhoto, and get them onganized for iMovie.
The Mac works for me , not the other way around.
Yesterday, Steve Jobs announced a new iPod . I ve already upgraded to iTunes 6 and I'll have a new iPod to sync to my G4 tower.
XP & OS X (Tiger)
by Michael Wilimzig - 6/3/05 9:31 AM In reply to: Mac OS-X or Windows XP - Which one is most user friendly? by dj_white_rice"However, Windows XP is a more consumer friendly and consumer industry accepted platform than the Mac OS-X."
Funny....I've been using both, the Windows-OS and the MacOS, since 1994.
And I've come to the opposite conclusion.
Checking the article carefully, the Mac-user will discover many half-truths piled upon each other.
Obviously the writer of this 'article' is not familiar with the latest Apple-offering (Tiger).
Additionally, isn't it funny that more and more so-called PC-oriented "tech" writers find OS X more user-friendly.
Those guys over at PC Magazine are outright gushy...!
| Forum legend: | |
 |
Locked thread |
 |
Moderator |
 |
CNET staff |
 |
Samsung staff |
 |
Norton Authorized Support team |
 |
AVG staff |
 |
Windows Outreach team |
 |
Dell staff |
 |
Intel staff |
