Mac OS X: Mac OS-X or Windows XP - Which one is most user friendly?
If you don't know both, don't compare them
by dtruett1 - 6/3/05 7:19 PM In reply to: Sigh, Sigh, Sigh... by dj_white_riceI have used both platforms since 1992. I have bought and owned both PCs and Macs for home and school use. I have also taught DOS & Windows at the university level, as well as Mac OS X and OS 8 and 9. My opinion: Macs are far superior and user-friendly.
dj_white_rice destroys his evaluation when he says, " Mac OS-X I am relatively new too having only recently upgraded with the purchase of the Mac Mini, but since this was a comparison of overall basics on the system platforms, I belive I was being totally fair and unbiased between OS-X and Windows XP."
He is comparing aspects of both, purporting to be versed in them, specifically using XP and OS X. Then he admits he really hasn't used OS X much. He bases his entire Desktop Navigation critique on the Mac on something that is absolutely wrong, and if he bothered to actually learn the system the way he obviously knows XP, he would know this. It's swell that he owns a bunch of relic Macs and a new Mini, but HE HASN'T LEARNED THE SYSTEM! I quote him below:
"Mac OS-X - Desktop Navigation: Average - Your stuck with limited folder viewing options. Folders branch out with a funky menu when you open them, it takes more work to find what your looking for because you can't just pop open folder after folder. (What happened?? Used to be easier with the pre-OS-X versions)"
Fact - There are 3 (count em-THREE) ways to easily do what he misses, make folders keep opening up on top of each other in the desktop:
1. Click the "Old Finder" button on the top right of the window
2. Hold down the command key when double-clicking a folder inside another folder
3. Set it as a preference under Finder Preferences
I teach these things the first night of class. If you don't take the trouble to learn even the most elementary options of an operating system, DON'T pass yourself off as qualified to pass judgment on it. OS X is different than Windows-it's supposed to be. I'm just amazed at people who obviously spent hours and hours learning to use Windows, who gripe because they might need to pick up a book and learn the nuts and bolts of something new. I think Mac OS X is infinitely better (no one has mentioned how BUCK UGLY Windows' windows are), but that's up to the individual. The point is, any new system requires a learning curve. The Mac's is just shorter and, I think, more rewarding.
Finally, to those who complain about Apple's single button mouse. The only thing worse is their spongy keyboard. Note that for $20 you can get a Kensington Optical Elite with 4 buttons, a button on the scroll wheel, two pairs of chording buttons (making 7 ways to launch, etc.) programmable by individual application.
Buying Intel in Bulk at Wholesale?!
by wuzelwazel - 6/28/05 4:25 PM In reply to: Sigh, Sigh, Sigh... by dj_white_rice''For the same price as my Mac Mini, I was able to built a awesome Pentium 4 800 bus speed PC with 1 Gig Ram and a 3.25 GHZ Processor. With the Mac Mini that same money only bought me a 1.25 GHZ processor with 167 Bus Speed, 256 Megs Ram and a slow 40 gig hard disk.''
Where did you buy that Intel steup? Holy mother... I thought that the Intel processor/motherboard itself would cost easily half what the Mac mini does (and we haven't even covered RAM, Hard Drive, Media Ports, Enclosures, etc.) I'm assuming we're discussing a computer you built for yourself as Dell computers that cost about the same as the Mac mini tend toward crappiness (i.e. no dedicated VRAM, Celeron processor equivalent to the G3 technology, etc.)?
Thank you!
by Berardino - 10/14/05 7:10 AM In reply to: Sigh, Sigh, Sigh... by dj_white_riceThank you, thank you, thank you. No one could have put it in better words. A true professional, you understand and explain the situation better than most. You are giving the real prospective to the age long discussion Windows or Mac? Did I say thank you?
Sigh, Sigh, Sigh
by protagonistic - 10/14/05 9:33 AM In reply to: Sigh, Sigh, Sigh... by dj_white_rice"As far as Mac OS-X being easier to use, that would only be the case for someone who is Mac savvy. It was totally easy to transition from Mac to Windows, but for a Windows user coming to Mac without a pre-OS-X background the move would be quite challenging. Especially with OS-X's inflexabilites in customization".
You are right, when I made the transition to OS X with no previous Mac background it did take me at least 15 Minutes to get used to the Apple way of doing things. Honestly, I don't know why you figure the Windows to OS X change is so difficult to make. Give me a few minutes with a Windows user on a Mac and I will have him happily computing away on OS X. And how hard is it to right click on the OS X desktop and customize that? You seem to have a very low opinion of the intelligence of the average Windows user. The reason most people have trouble with Windows is because it is not particularly user friendly. Sure, if you started in the DOS days or even further back Windows is definitely more user friendly. But just because OS X is different does not make it less so. From my experiences I would wager that if you took two people who have never used a computer before, ( I know, where are you going to find them), one on Windows and one on OS X, the OS X user would be by far the happier after a few days of use.
Remember, different does not necessarily mean less friendly.
SPYMAC SPAM SPAM and SPAM.
by R. Proffitt
- 5/28/05 4:56 AM
In reply to: dj_white_rice doesn't fully realize how ignorant his post is by audiopainter
You posted your email address in the clear for the spam robots to harvest.
I can delete your post by your request. Just fashion a new response without the email if you want the content to stand.
These forums have a nice anti-spam email system. It's in your profile.
Bob
Mac rant!
by strickjh2005 - 5/31/05 5:33 AM In reply to: dj_white_rice doesn't fully realize how ignorant his post is by audiopainterTee hee. I love mac rants. So much fun to listen to!
Ditto !
by grimgraphix - 5/31/05 9:32 PM In reply to: (NT) Me too! by mrmacfixit
Everyone loves a good discussion !
Grim
Mac vs. WinXP
by j.e.buhler - 6/3/05 7:24 AM In reply to: dj_white_rice doesn't fully realize how ignorant his post is by audiopainterThe whole debate is a tiresome one after a while but it will no doubt continue...... As a user of both systems Mac since the beginning and Win since '98, I have seen both evolve and based on that user experience, not deep technical know-how, I agree with this post that the overall user exprience is superior on the Mac, especially with OS 10.4 Tiger
Let's face it GUI innovation has been an Apple strength since day one and Windows has always played catch-up. Nothing has changed....
One biased post after another?
by Gregory A. Beamer - 6/3/05 10:58 AM In reply to: dj_white_rice doesn't fully realize how ignorant his post is by audiopainterNot meaning to get into a holy war, but your redaction of dj_white_rice shows incredible Mac bias, making it as worthless as the original post. I agree with some of your positive points about Mac, but the slant is definitely Mac. The original post seems actually a bit more even handed than yours, although there is a definite PC slant.
My background: 8 years as a graphic artist prior to becomming a web programmer. This means I have years of Mac and PC experience.
Overall, PCs are used for business, while Mac is used for more specialized purposes (graphics, video, music, etc.). This is not 100%, but you do not see a lot of businesses run on Mac. Mac also has a lower market share, which means the software that runs on Mac is more expensive. If I were doing business or programming, I could do it on a Mac, but it would cost a lot more.
Security is getting better on PCs, but Mac wins in this area still. Mac is based on Unix (BSD technically), so it comes from a long line. Unix is more secure due to this history. There are security holes in the Unix platform, however, so some of the security hype comes from ignorance (If Bill Gates sneezes, everyone knows).
Usability? It really is more of a preference. Both Mac and XP are very usable. They are also both very configurable. Mac makes it harder to poke down deep in the OS, but then again, people rarely need to unless they are programming.
Disk cleaning options? XP has more easily accessible FUD included (some of which may get MS sued again ;->), but anyone really serious about tools is going to buy something more than the downgraded XP included versions.
Overall, it is a matter of preference. I prefer a PC for most work I do, but it is a tool. There are some things I prefer to do on Mac. To me it is the same with Java versus .NET fights or FrontPage versus Dreamweaver fights. Most of the "evidence" is anecdotal and ends up dealing with "I like X better than Y".
terminal
by Crucegg435 - 6/3/05 2:01 PM In reply to: One biased post after another? by Gregory A. BeamerI am tired of hearing people complain about not being able to get deep down into their system on a Mac. So what? i mean in Windows if you get deep down and change something it could wreck your whole system, mac prevents that. however there is one thing i am not hearing anyone mention, and that is terminal. I mean terminal is a great tool, probably the most powerful part of the OS. With it you can do so much more, but that does require knowing c++, oh well, i mean if you need to go down there you should be prepared. I use a mac as my main computer and have a windows computer for storage mainly. I am biased towards mac because i was not brave enough to venture down and learn about Windows, although i am sure it can be very interesting, no sarcasm intended.
You hit the nail on the head!
by URTido - 10/14/05 7:15 AM In reply to: dj_white_rice doesn't fully realize how ignorant his post is by audiopainterI totally agree with this post and it's explanation of why the original article was biased. Of course if you take someone who uses windows all the time and casually put them in front of a Mac they will be confused. First off, they're thinking of how they do thing in Windows (though Macs do many things somewhat similarly to windows). It's no wonder then that they can't understand how to do things in any different way than what they're used to on a Windows machine.
To truly tell how user friendly a system is, you need several people who don't normally use a computer to try both systems. Otherwise there will always be some sort of bias, even if they try to be as unbiased as possible.
I use both operating systems equally. I own an iBook and a Dell desktop. Both systems have their virtues; Windows has lots of software available and the machines are relatively cheap, while Macs are stable, relatively secure, and OSX is beautiful to work on (ok I've become a little bit of a 'switcher' even though I complained about Macs in high school). But both also have their drawbacks: Windows is insecure (as the most common OS, of course hackers and the like are going to target Windows and find their way in through every hole possible), the OS is expensive ($199 for XP Pro), and installing/uninstalling can be problematic because of small files placed all over and you don't know where to look (esp problematic when the uninstaller doesn't work.. then you're SOL); Macs are expensive to buy relative to entry level PC's (personally I think this is because Apple discontinues older machines while PC makers aim to make entry level computers that are dirt cheap and use very old technology (Celeron anyone?)), and software is more limited (though there is the iLife series of programs which gives you an easy to use and decent quality photo editor, movie editor, and DVD burner).
Of course....
by Redlar - 11/5/05 2:06 AM In reply to: dj_white_rice doesn't fully realize how ignorant his post is by audiopainterYou have a Mac bias. Lets face it, many Mac users grew up with Macs and couldn't switch to PCs, use Macs for their very specific, niche job (i.e Graphic Processing, et al,)or switched to Macs because they couldn't wait for SP2. I agree with every word dj_white_rice said, even the parts where Mac performed better then Windows, because I can accept that Windows isn't perfect.
But Macs aren't perfect either. They aren't easy to use at all. When I first started to learn how to use a computer in school, we used Apple OS6, or somesuch thing, while at home I used a Windows 95. When it came time to buy a new computer, my parents got me an iMac, with OS8, but we couldn't figure anything out. We eventaully returned it for a Compaq machine running 98. Ever since then, I have had bad luch with other Macs, including the new G5's, maybe because I didn't understand what I was doing.
And you have a PC bias
by dtruett1 - 11/5/05 7:46 AM In reply to: Of course.... by RedlarAnd I have a Mac bias.
" Lets face it, many Mac users grew up with Macs and couldn't switch to PCs, use Macs for their very specific, niche job (i.e Graphic Processing, et al,)or switched to Macs because they couldn't wait for SP2."
I am a teacher and use Macs for every kind of job you can imagine. I also used the two versions of Windows prior to XP, even teaching them to teachers in the credential program. I found Macs WAY easier to use, although I was more than competent with Windows. But that's just my opinion.
" I agree with every word dj_white_rice said, even the parts where Mac performed better then Windows, because I can accept that Windows isn't perfect."
Nor are Macs. However, if you accept his post, then you're making a mistake, because his comments about features are just dead wrong in many regards, in part due to the fact that despite his protests, he is not really conversant with the things OS X can do. I don't blame him for not knowing this. I do blame him for stating that the OS can't do something that it can. Read all of the threads. I and others have pointed out specific misstatements.
" Ever since then, I have had bad luch with other Macs, including the new G5's, maybe because I didn't understand what I was doing."
At least you're truthful. I wouldn't compare the user friendliness of XP to OS X, because I'm not as competent with XP. I respect those who have used both more or less equally and think that XP is superior. I strongly object to those who haven't made a fraction of the effort to learn OS X that they have with XP, who make incorrect statements about Macs and declare Windows superior. It seems that most of those with in-depth knowledge of both prefer Mac, but that's just a sampling. Even if the user experience were pretty close on both platforms, I can't imagine spending my time dealing with viruses, worms, spyware, reformatting drives, reinstalling systems, etc.
Which is more Friendly… WindowsXP or MAC OSX?
by rcwilson - 6/3/05 6:48 AM In reply to: Mac OS-X or Windows XP - Which one is most user friendly? by dj_white_riceSetting aside the subjective nature of the question, I am still inclined to equivocate. Like most people, operating systems are about as friendly as the people who interact with them.
Far more to the point is the user-friendliness of the applications you use and their applicability to the tasks you want to accomplish.
No software is user-friendly if it refuses to give you the infomation you ask for; regardless of operating system. Conversely, if the program you like provides the information (or results) you want, in the format you prefer, in response to queries posed in the syntax and diction you are most comfortable with, it can hardly be more user-friendly; again, regardless of operating system.
I tryout a lot of software on both Windows and MAC platforms (as well as others) and I have deloped a rating scale for "User-Friendliness:"
1-User-Affectionate - This program gives you the result you expect in the perfect format and writes the correct query for you.
2-User-Supportive - almost as good as user-affectionate
3-User-Friendly - As courteous and helpful as user-supportive, but leaves you high and dry when it can't perform.
4-User-unfriendly - not only doesn'y give oyu what you want, but is rude about it as well.
5-User-Hostile - Provides no feed-back, trashes your data and enters an infinite loop requiring a reboot whenever you don'y provide the answers it wants.
If a program is "User-Friendly" or better on the above scale, who cares what operating system is running?
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