Browsers: Firefox, Netscape, IE?? ***!!!!
Firefox, Netscape, IE?? ***!!!!
by alexcordero9 - 5/26/05 1:18 PMOK,
I have to make sure that my stuff is presentable in different browsers. I've been working with them for years and to this day -- I don't see why everyone's upset by one or the other.
I surf the net with both IE and Firefox. I don't see a difference--really, I don't. Now maybe it's because I don't care about browser security and I certainly can't differentiate a bug from a feature. Basically, it's not that important. I haven't worked with any customers who have asked me about browser scurity.
Is this just Microsoft bashing? I mean really? seriously??
What is wrong with IE and why do so many people(mostly geeks) hate it?
Is it security?(which I don't care about anyway.)
Speed? (it works as fast as FF on my computer and old laptop).
What are people doing with these browsers that makes them hate one over the other so much. I'll admit, I like tabbed browsing, that's cool! but other than that? I don't see why IE is getting slammed so much...
My customers ask me and I don't know what to tell them.
Please, no flaming... I'm an experienced web designer, not a J2EE developer or a C programmer, nor am I hacker wannabe.
Thanks.(looking for guidance here...)
I'm with you. . .
by Coryphaeus - 5/26/05 7:04 PM In reply to: Firefox, Netscape, IE?? ***!!!! by alexcordero9My opinions here on the subject are legendary. I have been running IE since day one, tried Netscape, back to IE, tried Moz, back again, tried FF, and guess what. I have FF installed only to verify my web site (designed by me and on my IBM server) is accessable. Many people here bash IE, but I've had exactly zero problems. I do run NAV 2005, various spyware blockers (see my site below at the Anti-Spyware Suite link) and keep my three machines (two XP and one W98SE, the server) updated.
I'm happy.
Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that person to
use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.
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Me, too!
by GradyPhilpott - 6/3/05 6:50 PM In reply to: I'm with you. . . by CoryphaeusI use MSN9 and IE and as far as I'm concerned, both are extremely intuitive. I've tried all the others and I find myself trying to figure out the most basic functions. With IE, I surf the web with no problem. That is, after all, all I want. Norton takes care of my security issues.
My input
by MarkFlax
- 5/27/05 1:34 AM
In reply to: Firefox, Netscape, IE?? ***!!!! by alexcordero9
I often recommend users switch to Firefox for security reasons. The main one being that because IE is used by 90%, (or whatever the current figure is), of internet users, it is IE that is targeted by virus writers, spyware, adware, hackers etc.
With IE comes OE which has had it's own share of security problems, and so I recommend people switching to another email client. I don't use OE myself, but use Netscapes Messenger 7.1.
Having said that, I still use IE for Windows Updates and the odd web page that Firefox doesn't render the way the web designer prefers, and I have had no problems with IE.
However, I use a suite of anti-malware programs constantly to keep my system as clean as possible of malware, and so IE hackers, etc, have less chance of passing malware on to me through my own IE than they do other IE users.
For my part I reckon that Microsoft have done a fantastic job. Without them my own experiences on the internet may have been so much different, and perhaps less enjoyable, so I hope I don't Microsoft bash as other people may do.
The problem, as I see it, is one of scale. IE is the most widely used browser, for whatever reason, and it is the main target of malware. If and when Firefox, Netscape or anything else takes the lead, that browser may well become the main target of attacks, and my advice might then be, "switch to IE".
Mark
100% agree with Mark
by jonah jones - 5/27/05 1:39 AM
In reply to: My input by MarkFlax
i use firefox (browser) 99.9% of the time, and thunderbird (email) 100% of the time for the reasons stated, it's a fact that IE & OE are "prime" targets for the bad guys, why make life easier for them?
jonah
.
My input
by Earthquake McGoon - 6/6/05 7:14 PM In reply to: My input by MarkFlax
Couldn't agree more!
What is wrong with IE ... ?
by janpoko - 5/28/05 4:07 AM In reply to: Firefox, Netscape, IE?? ***!!!! by alexcordero9It's simple. If we ommit security problems (which really is the result of being used by majority and thus being attacked primarily), what can IE do to improve your browsing?
In IE:
- Can you zoom the page just with mousewheel? If you have to read the net 6+ hours daily, you will find zooming (and fitting to window width, consequently) indispensable.
- Can you control your work with mouse gestures? Once you get accustomed to it you will not understand how you could live without it. Opening links on background with just a mouse jerk is something you'l get addicted to in no time.
- Can you handle your mail (mail client) in the browser itself, with commands equal for both?
- Can you process newsfeeds (RSS, ATOM) in it?
- Can you switch to text only/cashed images only/full display with just a single keystroke? When you are on slow connection this will come extremely handy
- Can you open a second page, linked to the first one, so that you just click the links in (let us say) left half of the window and see the contents displayed in another half?
- Can you save your scenario (currently open pages) together with their various settings (full screen for one page, other page sized and zoomed etc.) so that you open the same load next time with just a mouse click?
- Can you download multiple files simlutaneously on background with just a right click and with possibility to interrupt,stop ,resume interrupted transfers any time?
- Can you switch on/off javascript, java, gif animation, sound in pages, plugins with just two clicks?
- Can you display svg graphics?
If you really do not need any of these (and tens of other improvements - it should take a full-size article to name them all), then IE is sufficient for you 
- Can you command your browser with your voice? Can you make your IE read the selected text aloud?
yikes!
by alexcordero9 - 5/28/05 9:53 AM In reply to: What is wrong with IE ... ? by janpokosir, you're obviously a power user and I don't think that your usage of a browser represents the majority. For users such as yourself, Firefox obviously has its advantages. I've tried Mouse Gestures and zooming into pages quickly lost interest--and yes, I spend a lot time reading web pages--I'm a web designer.
But for the avarage user? I talk to a lot of people that use a browser to do day-to-day tasks, e.g., ebay, banking, reading web-mail.
The point of my question came from some of these people asking me and I didn't know what to tell them. This tells me that most people don't use those wonderful features that you have become accustomed to.
Still, this doesn't address "IE bashing", it simply states your preference.
Just Right
by elusivebull - 6/3/05 7:01 AM In reply to: What is wrong with IE ... ? by janpokoTalk about hitting the nail on the head. Janpoko is so right on with the FACTS. Security, security, security. Features, features, features. When BIG MONIES get it done right perhaps then and only then we the people will return. Power users or not. IE is dangerous and lacks in quality features. Again hats off to both the FOX and Janpoko.
Is it the Features, or the Amount of Features
by Merranvo - 6/4/05 12:48 PM In reply to: What is wrong with IE ... ? by janpokoFirst issue is your Zooming. I can stay on the web for 10 hours and never have an issue of sight, nor do I sit directly infront of the monetor, which will cause temporary blindness. And yes, you can zoom using CRTL SCROLL.
You can type in commands faster than jerks, and if you have a propperly calibrated mouse, you can move anywhere in the screen in .5 seconds.
Mail...inside the browser...this is a common monopoly tactic, release software that can do more than you need.
Free Software is avaliable for chacheing images, although I don't care for it because the HTML Typically loads first.
It seems your talking about frames...something that all good webdesigners have shuned. But besides that, all good webdesigners make their web page so that you can go anywhere with a few clicks, is it that hard to push backspace?
F11 for fullscreen, if you really need bigger text CTRL SCROLL. Not that hard. Also has free software that can do the same thing.
turning off javascript...unless you go on personalized pages this is a no no, javascript controls many advanced functions, the only thing you get from turning it off is disabling popups and getting rid of annoying preK scripts on childrens Web Pages. Simple way to disable sound. Use a Mute button, or click the volume control on the task bar. (why disable your plugins?)
With aditional software you can display anything.
Ohh...your now talking about the old way of controling things that really is a lot slower than mouse/keyboard commands. If you are blind then you have need for these sort of things, but there is the windows built in reader program that will do the same thing.
I don't support IE, i just don't see where you are going with this, most of these 'features' are memory wasting material. The more features you cram into somthing, the more that has to give, why do you think that windows 95 could run off of 8MB of memmory, but XP requires 128MB? This is the type of thing I HATE bill for. Memory Wasting Features that allow universal software, all Extra Features are is a monopoly tactic.
All a brower needs is stop, refresh, print, back, forward, and adress bar. Disabling popups is a wanted bonus, And favorits is somewhat needed, but why would you need anything else if another aplication can do it for you, and better even?
Also, open Source is a term to fear. It means that once Fire Fox becomes popular, it will be used as mass means for attacking computers with. There are always back doors, and with direct examination of the code, a experianced hacker can find a multitude of security holes in raw code. So in the end run...security is not any factor in Fire Fox, there is just a peace time between the cross fire, for now. Also if you have propperly set up firewalls, and have the common sense not to download things from strange sites, you won't have any security issues at all.
Is it the features...........
by Earthquake McGoon - 6/6/05 7:12 PM In reply to: Is it the Features, or the Amount of Features by MerranvoI agree with you, Merranvo. I prefer FF because there are no pop-ups, etc. Other than that, no big deal. Not an
MS fan but anything that can't co-exist usually goes away!
Windows 95 on 8MB RAM - just barely.
by unigamer69 - 6/9/05 10:12 AM In reply to: Is it the Features, or the Amount of Features by MerranvoHave you ever tried to actually run Windows 95 on 8MB of RAM? I did it on a family friend's machine... it was a nightmare. It might run... but it would take 10 hours to do anything lol.
Also, Win95 ran on 8MB, it takes 128MB for XP... well, actually it's the same thing as with Win95, it takes a hell of a lot more if you want to run anything decent... RAM is a lot cheaper than it used to be.
When I bought my 2.4Ghz XP-running laptop, it came with 256MB RAM and was relatively slow, it didn't do that good chip justice - I went out and bought a 512MB DIMM for under $100, and it basically (seemingly) tripled the actual performance of the machine...
Do you remember how much Windows 95 and 98 crashed (I won't EVEN talk about ME lol)? XP rarely crashes compared to the whole 9x group... XP may be a little bloated, but it's far more stable. Of course, 2000 would have this advantage too.
A hint - you can speed up an XP machine quite a bit by turning off all the fancy visual features. This is especially easy to deal with if you're used to the old 9x OSes.
Jeff
I like IE
by auggief - 5/28/05 12:07 PM In reply to: Firefox, Netscape, IE?? ***!!!! by alexcordero9I have many protective programs and have not had spyware or virus problems. It's too bad that when people ask questions in this forum they are told to switch to Firefax instead of getting the answer to their question.
Yikes again! and Mark is right
by funkid7 - 6/1/05 5:56 AM In reply to: I like IE by auggiefWho uses all those useless features in FF? I didn't see one thing on that list of features that would convince me to switch. None of them are beneficial enough to go through the hassle of switching(and that is one BIG hassle, for me).
I also am one, who could care less about security. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Switching
by dkoontz - 6/3/05 9:44 AM In reply to: Yikes again! and Mark is right by funkid7>I also am one, who could care less about security. If it
>ain't broke, don't fix it.
I used to do a lot of pc repair type work and in the last few years a good portion of it has been spyware/adware removal. I have never seen an infected computer where the user had FireFox as their primary browser. Now these are not power users, just people I have either switched over to FireFox myself or have heard about it and decided to try it. People who had consistent spyware problems before now have no issues (bad for business but good for the user).
>None of them are beneficial enough to go through the
>hassle of switching(and that is one BIG hassle, for me).
You download and install one file. FireFox imports all your bookmarks from IE. Where is the BIG hassle in that?
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