Community Newsletter: Q&A: 5/13/05 My new PC performing worse than my old one
- 5/12/05 2:31 PM
Additional suggestions from members
by Mark L. - 5/13/05 9:10 PM In reply to: Additional suggestions from our members (section 1): by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have a Dell Dimension 4100 that uses Windows ME as the operating system. I notice that if I have too many programs running at ''startup'', my system slows down a great deal, enough to think I have a virus or adware. I go into ''run'' ''msconfig'' and then ''startup'', and I uncheck everything that I don't need. When installing new programs, a lot of them will automatically go into the ''startup'' tray and they use up a lot of system resources which slowdown your computer.
My computer Dell Dimension 2400 is very slow
by elinorann978 - 5/14/05 7:57 AM In reply to: Additional suggestions from our members (section 1): by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I mentioned what I do to find out what is wrong.
What you have to do is to eliminate, The Process of elimination is lengthy but here is how I would start:-
1. Check for spyware. If you do not have a spyware remover, you can download Microsoft Anti Spyware remover from the Microsoft website. Run the program. I am quite sure you have plenty of spyware.
2. Install Spybot from www.download.com
Run spybot.
3. Delete all temporary internet files in Internet Explorer and delete your cache in Firefox if you are using firefox.
4. Have you ever defragged your computer. I defrag once a month. This also speeds up your system. Your computer comes with a windows defragger installed.
Dont be afraid- run it.
5. If you do not have an antivirus installed, you must run one immediately. There are many that give you a free trial.
6. The SP2, gives you a firewall and pop up blocker. I feel much safer after installing SP2.
After running all these applications, your system should run as fast as a bullet.
When you installed your new memory, did it show accepted? Dell memory is not compatible with every type of RAM. Both Kingston and Crucial give you charts of comparable memory you can purchase, Just type in your system name by Dell and it will show you comparable RAM.
I would do all of the above before SYSTEM RESTORE or before a reinstall of the CDs included with your Dell.
Try everything before you lose all your files.
Best of Luck to you
Elinor W.
Montreal
Additional suggestions from our members (section 2):
by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 5/12/05 4:23 PM
In reply to: 5/13/05 My new PC performing worse than my old one by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
**** Additional suggestions from our members (section 2) ****
Answer:
Hi Mitch C.,
A slow computer with your processor and memory is due to a number of reasons. You don't give much to go on. And there are quite a number of things to check for. If the problem is not hardware related, then it can be software related. Check to see if you need to defragment the hard drive. Run your anti virus software and see if you picked something up you didn't want. Run Spybot and adaware, you may have picked up too many little programs that run in the background. Check the lower right corner of your desktop by the clock and decide if all of the programs you run there are necessary. Your computer is like a tree and sometimes it gets overgrown with running programs...that all eat up clock cycles. Check in the hardware manager in My Computer to see if your C drive is running in DMA mode. Go to PC Pitstop and run their free tests. Go to desktop properties and see if active desktop is running, that slowed up my brother's computer, screensaver slide shows live in your system memory and won't let go. Do control alt delete and check to see how many programs are currently running. And finally, do a google search for ways to speed up Windows Xp, there are several very good articles that will guide you through the process of tweaking Windows Xp . All those things will get you closer to peak performance. Hope it helped.
Submitted by: Jerry S.
***************************************************************************
Answer:
Mitch,
I feel your pain and anguish. I have worked on many computers like yours and they all had the same problem. Spyware, Adware, and Trojan's. You pick these unwanted programs up very easily when browsing the Internet, downloading programs, and even through Email. The first thing I do when repairing a computer such as yours, is make sure the virus protection is current . Then I download a copy of Lavasoft's Adaware SE Personal and Spybot - Search and Destroy 1.3. Both of these programs are available on C/Net's Download.com.
After installing these programs be sure to update them before running them. This assures you are checking with the latest definitions. Generally I delete everything that these programs find. After these programs have run I do full scan of the computer for virus's with the installed virus checker. Then I double and triple check check it with online scans from Symantec, McAfee, and Trendmicro's Housecall. Of these three antivirus programs only Housecall will actually try to clean any virus's without requiring you to purchase their programs first.
This should remove 99% of the malware that is affecting your performance. I generally then run Hijack this to examine the registry to see what types of things are being loaded into memory. If a program is not needed for the operation of the machine, why have it take up resources? You do need to exercise extreme caution when modifying registry items. If you are not comfortable working in this area I suggest taking the computer to someone who is. Many startup programs are loaded from your Startup group. You can access this by clicking on Start, Run, then typing "msconfig". Clicking on the startup tab will show those programs that are loaded at startup. Here again, if it is not necessary for the computer's operation, why load it? Use the same precautions as you would for the Registry.
As far as your comment about not installing SP2, I urge you to reconsider. SP2 is meant to help you avoid these types of problems. Just be SURE to install SP2 on a CLEAN computer. The only time I've had trouble installing SP2 is when that computer had Spyware, Adware, or Trojans already on it. I have never had an installation problem on a clean machine. Hope this helps.
Submitted by: Steve O. of Shell Rock, IA
***************************************************************************
Answer:
Hi
I am a technical support engineer. According to my experience I can ask you to check something.
1. Is it your HDD format is NTFS? If it is FAT some time it will affect the PC performance. Convert to NTFS.
2. Did you check your HDD for bad sectors? If you got bad sectors PC will come slow.
3. If you’re HDD giving sound, the HDD is not in good condition. This also can affect.
4. If your windows partition is about to full PC become slow
5. If your windows partition is very big it can effect. For windows create around 10GB of petition, for application use deferent partition
6. make conform that your windows HDD and CD ROM are not connected with same IDE cable
7. Make conform your PC not infected with virus. If infected follow the steps given by your antivirus product support. Some virus can make changes in registry and system files.
8. Check your HDD speed.
9. finally if your HDD is ok, try to re-install the windows in NTFS format
Note: you mention it is a DELL PC. I have more experience with DELL product I am working in DELL dealer. Normally DELL installing windows BY ghosting, this type of installation can reduce the performance up to 20%. So re-install windows with your recovery CD.
Thanks
Regards,
Submitted by: Sana
***************************************************************************
Answer:
I help service some 1400 pieces of computer equipment in a school district. Although I have the luxury of doing what is called reimaging to restore a machine to its optimal state some times that is just not possible to do because of the users wishes. What I have found is that many a times there is ad ware that has sneaked into the system files and piggy backs, if you will, causing the machine to run extremely slow.
Loading Windows XP sp2 is good for security, but will not necessarily fix the previous virus or what ever imbedded itself in your system files.
I recommend that you first turn off the system restore setting, then run some ad ware removal tool, such as Ad-Aware SE, on your machine.
There is a free version that you can get which is very effective.
Also do an antivirus scan on the machine, but before you do make sure you run the online update for the software and then do it. If you find a virus be aware that some of these viruses must be removed with the machine in safe mode.
After all this is done then update your machine to Xp sp2. I have found this process very effective and although time consuming it is worth the trip.
The last resort would be to save your documents on to a disk or other medium like a jump drive and reinstall the operating system from scratch. Know however that if you do this you should also do all off the above, minus the virus scan, before you go back on the internet. You may also want to activate your fire wall. Either the Xp one or download a free basic one such as Zonelab from Zonelab.com
Reinstalling the Operating system also means you will have to reinstall all your programs. That is just the nature of the beast.
Hope this helps.
Submitted by: Homer F.
***************************************************************************
Answer:
I had the exact same thing happen with our PC.
We did a lot of tweaking:
Purchased PC Booster, which was a PHENOMENAL help in
increasing the speed. The PC now boots quicker!
Also, we changed from Norton AV to McAfee, as Norton
is a memory hog and slows down processing.
Sygate seems to run better than Norton's Firewall.
The big thing is, THE MORE YOU INSTALL, the slower
your machine will run, so only install what you necessarily
need. If you don't need EXCEL, take it off.
Also, you may want to get a FREEWARE tool called
System Tracker. It watches all processes on your
system and is 100 times better than the Task Manager.
I could go on and on. Most people believe that if they
partition their hard drive, placing programs on the 2nd
partition and just the O/S on the 1st, they are wrong.
JUST PUT YOUR DATA on the 2nd partition. The processing
that is done trying to access those programs on the
2nd partition will increase, so leave them installed on the
C:\ with your O/S.
Use the Scandisk feature, setting it up automatically for
a weekly scan.
I just found PC Booster fabulous. You can try it before you
buy it. There's also a memory bar that shows you what
you are currently using and it allows you to maximize at
any time.
As I said, there are probably much more tweaks you can do, but the
more you install, the slower your system will be. I think
WXP Home Edition is much better than XP Professional, so
consider that. You may want to consider restoring your system
again and wiping everything off and starting over. That's
your best bet!
Regards,
Submitted by: Sherry R.
***************************************************************************
Answer:
I will give it a shot although there's not much info provided. The first thing that came to my mind was the amount of memory you increased your snail to. I am only guessing because I am not sure of all of the snails specs. If your PC is "Dual Channel" capable and you slapped in a "single" 512 MB RAM stick along with I assume a "single" 256 MB RAM stick then your CPU would not utilize it's "Dual Channel" capability. Next, again I don't know if you got your new RAM from Dell or not so I will assume "NOT", is the new RAM of the same specs as the OEM, IE. PC3200 512MB 400MHz SD RAM. If the 256MB RAM is PC2700 256MB 333MHz then you have another problem.
Also if the specs are different it matters what DIMM slots you put each stick into.
I know that with the newer Dells you need to replace the RAM in "matched" pairs in order for the Dual Channel function to work correctly.And not all after market RAM is compatible with OEM systems. I had a problem myself with this I wanted to go from 512 to 1 GB, the Corsair RAM did not work correctly which is why they now have a system select line of RAM for OEM PC's.
Also by adding more RAM that doesn't make your snail faster anyway, well I you can run more programs or download and watch a movie at the same time depending on your whole set up in terms of making your PC faster, how big and fast is your hard drive? Do you have the on board graphic chip running your monitor? Sound card? There's too many variables involved to give a concrete answer.
I can tell you from my experience this is what I did to make my Dell 3000 run pretty darn good and reliable. I will give you the original specs and my current set up and it's capabilities.
Original:
P4 H.T. 3.0 G,80GB Maxtor HD,512MB PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel SD RAM,Intel extreme graphics (on board),On board sound,no speakers,Dell keyboard and mouse,17" Dell CRT Monitor, PX Home Edition w/ SP2,McAfee Security Center
Current System.
P4 HT 3.0G,160GB Seagate Master HD,80GB Maxtor Slave HD,1024MB PC3200 400MHz. Dual Channel SD RAM,ATI Radeon 256MB graphics card,Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 sound card,Logitech Cordless Elite keyboard and mouse,Logitech Z2300 THX speakers,20" Dell 2005FP LCD Monitor,XP Media Center Edition 2005 w/ SP2,McAfee Security Center
The only regrets I have are 1) That I bought the lower line Dell 2)Dell puts to many limits on their PC's trying to force you to buy from them.Notice I said trying.While looking at my email I am 1) Currently responding to the CNET message 2) Converting 6 full length movies from AVI to DVD format with WinAvi 3) Downloading 35 movies all at the same time with LimeWire Pro 4) Running Diskeeper Pro "Continuously" with the McAfee Security Center running controlling my firewall, I could probably watch a movie at the same time with "NO" jitters or lags, hold on let's try it, OK I now am watching Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas on WMP 10 minimized of course and no skip in sound or jitter in picture NO BS.
So basically I could only guess at what problem is, and after using my roommates AMD PC I now swear by the P4 with Hyper Threading other wise there would be no way in heck I would be able to do all this and get this message out, no way.
Good luck,
Submitted by: Spindoctor
***************************************************************************
Answer:
Having the SP2 is not the problem. The 2.4GHZ is great, but you need to find out what your L2 cache is. That mostly determines the actual speed and operating range of your computer, whether it be 128, 256, 512, etc, and as for your memory upgrade...you need to know what specific type your board and processor will support. Ex. PC2100, PC2700, PC3200, (mem clock fsb also). Once you get the right combination, hoping you did not get stuck with 128kb L2, your system should run fine.
Submitted by: chris r.
***************************************************************************
Answer:
I recently received a P4 2.4 GHz Gateway with 256 MB memory, approximately the same configuration and symptoms your have. Really sluggish performance. The causes were multiple including four viruses and scores of spyware applications running in the background. Cleaning the existing system and decrementing your hard drive is one choice but requires thorough antivirus and spyware removal effort. A better solution in this situation is a complete reinstallation of the operating system and software programs after reformatting the hard drive. The following steps are the ones I followed.
Step 1: Detect and rid the system of viruses and spyware. Do this by obtaining a good anti-virus program and a good anti-spyware program. These can be reviewed and selected using cnet.com.
Step 2: Copy important data files to CD's or other media with the same directory structure you had on the hard drive. This will help later when you restore them to the reformatted drive.
Step 3: Export your XP Home or Professional settings for later use on the new installation. There is a tool for doing this in Windows.
Step 4: Reinstall your system selecting the choice which removes the current partition, repartitions the disk and formats it before installing the system.
Step 5: You will have to reinstall any drivers for your motherboard, audio, video cards, and any other cards installed as well as all your software programs. Make sure you have the original software for your mother board, sound card, video card, etc. Spending a little time to obtain the latest drivers will usually payoff. If you don't have some of the drivers be sure to obtain current versions from the manufacturer's web site. Save all these drivers to a CD or DVD disk.
Step 6: Load your motherboard drivers then the drivers for you video, audio and any other cards in your system. Restore your data files creating directories at the same time from your backup CD's. Make sure that the installations are completed by rebooting after installation of the drivers. If you copied to a CD with the same directories you had on your hard drive these will be recreated in the same directories by the restoration of the files.
Step 7: Be sure to select the NTFS format for security and efficiency. Be sure to upgrade the system to SP2. If done as instructed in Windows update it will not cause problems for you, will add important firewall protection and speed up the booting of the system. Add any updates since SP2.
Step 8: After the restorations are completed you may restore your customized settings for Windows from the file you exported in step 3.
Step 9: Upgrade your RAM to at least 1.5GB. This will do more than any other upgrade to improving the computer's operation.
Submitted by: Larry S.
***************************************************************************
Answer:
Hi
The slowness that you are experiencing could be MANY different things. You need to do the usual, checking your startup programs, etc. One nuance which I have found with SP2 is with the firewall which comes with it. If you are already using one, you will need to disable the one which came along in SP2. I had that happen to me and once I discovered it and disabled it my machine was fine. Actually, the machine happens to be a Dell Dimension 2400 with 2.8 gigahertz and XP pro, so...this could be your answer. Another thing that I did was getting rid of Norton security package, which is all that I <<used>> to use, but it has gotten way too expansive since the 2004 edition.
Naturally, I hope that I have solved your issue!
Submitted by: Richard
***************************************************************************
Answer:
If you know how to, and have the XP disc, you can reformat the PC, and that way, you can get rid of SP2, and whatever spyware/viruses you have accumulated. Plus, it usually gives the computer a fresh start. From then on, don't download SP2 (obviously), and watch your downloads carefully, to make sure you remain virus-and-spyware-free. Webroot Spy Sweeper and AVG Antivirus are two good (and free) programs to have. Others tout Ad-Aware from Lavasoft, and Spybot Search & Destroy, which are also free, and good programs; Spy Sweeper is just my personal preference.
A good rule of thumb... Don't download something that "looks cool." Make sure it is from a trusted source, and after you download something, scan your PC.
I also suggest you use a browser other than Internet Explorer, as it isn't all that great, and is sometimes open to attack. Mozilla Firefox is a good, free alternative to Internet Explorer, as is Opera (but it has an ad banner across the top). I used to use Opera, but I now use Firefox, so I don't have to bother with the ad, and I found some extensions so that Firefox acts like Opera, which is better than a no-extensions version of Firefox. Add the extensions, and Firefox is almost equal with Opera.
Another plus to these two browsers is they can both work on a CD. So, if you're at another computer, you can still use your browser by way of CD. The OTHER great thing about them... They are not hard on your system resources. You can have several tabs open, and the RAM/processor is still comfortable, unlike in Internet Explorer.
Hope this helps!
Later,
Submitted by: Christopher K.
***************************************************************************
Answer:
In most cases theres 2 elements that will make a computer slow, aside from the fact its slow anyway.
Spyware and Programs you dont know are running.
Most people look at the icons in the taskbar and figure these programs arent doing any harm to their boot-up,shutdown and simply just running the computer.
To rid yourself of spyware, check out Ad-aware 6.0 for cleansing of all spyware applications you may not know you even have.
As for running programs,try this:
Click Start
Click on Run
In the box type "msconfig" (no qoutes)
From there a screen will pop-up and look for the tab that says "Start-up" and click on the tab
You will see a list of programs that you use on a regular basis.
I reccomend you un-check every program with exceptions to your firewall and your virus scanner. If these tips don't work then something more in-depth could be wrong with your computer and it should be checked out by a professional.
Submitted by: Chris P.
***************************************************************************
Answer:
Well there are many ways to figure this out. First off try re-booting your Dell into Safe Mode; This will determine if the computer has a software conflict within the start-up programs. If this is so, type in "msconfig" into the command line and start though the process of elimination figure out which programs are eating up a lot of the virtual memory. Another memory saver is to get rid of the quick launch toolbar, and all of those Icons on the Taskbar, beside the clock. It is relatively easy to collect over 20 little running icons on that side.
If the safe mode way did not work, then it must be an Operating System and or hardware problem with Dell's interface all over the system.
Check the RAM again, by reinserting it into the board.
Submitted by: 9hOst
My computer is snail-like...
by rachid - 5/13/05 8:08 AM In reply to: Additional suggestions from our members (section 2): by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi ! This is a reply to Pete Z., Jamie T. and any other friend : it will sound somewhat strange, but I DO NOT have a msconfig in my computer !! That's what I got everytime I tried to Start/Run "msconfig" !
Can someone help me solve the problem ?
Thank you all.
Rachid
What OS are you running?
by tchristoff - 5/13/05 12:27 PM In reply to: My computer is snail-like... by rachidWindows 2000 didn't come with msconfig. Msconfig from Windows XP will work. You can google msconfig and "Windows 2000" to find places to download it. There are also quite a few "startup cop" types of utilities that have more options than msconfig.
PC Performing slow
by Rick P - 5/13/05 9:38 AM In reply to: Additional suggestions from our members (section 2): by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Just a quick note to mention the CNET online course "XP Maintenance and Troubleshooting", which covers most of the solutions offered by members. I found it very useful, and it is running for one more week ; you may find it well worth a look
Bring your Dimension 2400 back to original!!!
by cscheah - 5/13/05 3:00 AM In reply to: 5/13/05 My new PC performing worse than my old one by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Perform some step below and bring back your Dimension 2400 to original!
Go to BIOS and re-detect your hardware!
- See Dell Logo Screen when ON your computer press on
F2
- You will see "System Time" - "System Date"
- On the Number Lock / Cap Lock / Scroll Lock LED
Light on your keyboard. Make sure three LED light
on your keyboard is ON.
- Press Ctrl+E then Ctrl+F then Ctrl+B
---- System Will Restart and Re-detect your hardwaer
configuration and your computer will boot to
Windows XP ----
Now we going to test on your Hard Drive, see weather its work perfectly fine?
- In Windows XP restart your computer again
- See Dell Logo after restart "Press F12"
- Select IDE Drive Diagnostics or Hard Disk Drive
Diagnostic
- Test will take about 2 to 3 minutes
- After test completed you will see the Test Result
- In the result you will see
Drive 0 "follow by your Hard Disk Model number"
it will indicate PASSED, if the Hard Drive is test
is Pass the test.
If you see FAILED ---Pls call Dell Technical
Support
_______________________________________________
After Confirm the Hard Disk Test is Pass
then Format your PC and Reload back the Windows XP
You can find the complete guide to format Windows XP
in Dell Support WebSite
http://support.ap.dell.com
You can find the latest drivers as well.
________________________________________________
After finish formatting you PC and reload Windows XP
Insert your Resource CD that come with the Dell System and install all the Drivers into you system using that Resource CD.
There is a sequence when you do installation using that CD.
1ST you have to install Intel Chip Set Driver Utility
2ND Graphic Card Driver
then ONLY install additional drivers which is
Your Sound Card / Network Card / Modem Card Driver
After finish all the drivers installation
Install your norton or mcafee anti virus
Set your internet connection
Update virus definition
Download Microsoft Anti Spyware as well at Microsoft Website and install into your system
____________________________________________________
Do not install SP2 or any additional software first
Try using your computer for couple of days and monitor the performance.
I hope you will find it better / I believe it won't perform as worst as you mention on you question!
By the way, where you bought the additional RAM?
Is it a same brand / same speed / same specification / same Mhz as DELL one?
Hope it will help!
Shared Graphics
by brwoodruff - 5/13/05 4:28 AM In reply to: 5/13/05 My new PC performing worse than my old one by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
A lot of times when I hear that scenario (and you hear it often on the less expensive Dells and Gateway machines) you also have to consider most come with an onboard graphics card that "shares" the memory. This means its taking some memory and processes away from the main system and this, in turn, can affect the speed of your machine. Upgrading to a better graphics card and not using the onboard video is another option that has provided my users with better performance. Usually there is a sale on these cards each week in your paper. Sometimes after rebates you can spend as little as $29 on a nice card.
Sorry but that is impossible...
by law_john - 5/13/05 5:46 AM In reply to: Shared Graphics by brwoodruff...because there is no AGP or PCI-E slot on these cheaper Dell's motherboards. I got the best Dimension 2350 out of the factory thinking I could upgrade it even further but no, there was no video card slot.
Sure you could buy a PCI video card but there are several problems to that:
-They are extremely slow, sometimes worse than shared graphics
-They are hard to find because of their age
-and on these cheap Dells there are only about 3 PCI slots so you want to save as many as you can
John
Sorry, But THAT is impossible more
by funkid7 - 5/13/05 6:07 AM In reply to: Sorry but that is impossible... by law_johnDell made a preemptive attempt at readying themselves, for the NEW PCI technology. These cards have way better performance, than the original PCI cards and my 256mb PCI card in my Dell 8200; super awesome performance! Doom3 can't seem to overheat it yet, Dungeon Seige, EverQuest etc, all do well with PCI and do not crash.
You mean PCI Express?
by tchristoff - 5/13/05 12:46 PM In reply to: Sorry, But THAT is impossible more by funkid7I haven't researched PCI Express much. Is this what you mean by the NEW PCI technology? If so I didn't think the new PCI Express cards would work in the regular (or old) PCI slots. I would think the bus would slow the new PCI Express cards down noticably (if they are compatible). Of course I don't know for sure what kind of PCI slots the Dell 2400 has.
Sorry
by law_john - 5/16/05 6:30 AM In reply to: You mean PCI Express? by tchristoffYes, the new PCI Express is what I was talking about. And yes, "funkid7" PCI EXPRESS video cards are up to 4x faster than AGP and 8x faster than regular PCI cards, therefore, actual PCI video cards are outdated and slow.
Sorry for the confusion "tchristoff."
You are right, the new PCI Express cards require a different slot which you must buy a new motherboard to obtain if you dont already have a slot. Also, the bottom line about the Dell 2400's is that if you are planning on gaming or anything else CPU intensive then don't get one, they are TOO SLOW.
P.S. - A Dell 2400 has three regular PCI slots, no AGP, or PCI Express (runs on integrated video)
Dell 8200
by funkid7 - 5/23/05 8:57 AM In reply to: You mean PCI Express? by tchristoff3 PCI slots and yes they accept the PCI Express technology. 6 AGP slots also.
Before you do all that . . .
by DVL-NYC - 5/13/05 4:44 AM In reply to: 5/13/05 My new PC performing worse than my old one by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Take the "Before you replace the light bulb, make sure the lamp's plugged in" approach.
Check you fans and make sure they're not obstructed.
WOW!
by IanRobbo - 5/13/05 4:44 AM In reply to: 5/13/05 My new PC performing worse than my old one by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Dana... just a message of thanks for such a detailed (and easy to follow) reply to this question. Although my Dell desktop isn't suffering from the same problem - yet - I've kept a copy of your suggestions "just in case"!
I might even check out some of them anyway. There just might be something I can improve.
Thank you again for your efforts.
| Forum legend: | |
 |
Locked thread |
 |
Moderator |
 |
CNET staff |
 |
Samsung staff |
 |
Norton Authorized Support team |
 |
AVG staff |
 |
Windows Outreach team |
 |
Dell staff |
 |
Intel staff |
