Community Newsletter: Q&A: 5/6/05 What's safe and legal to download using a file-sharing program?
- 5/12/05 2:39 PM
:)
by Latinlover1 - 5/6/05 2:01 PM In reply to: PUBLIC LIBRARY by AAAAGood thought...however, have you ever not returned something to the public library?...the late fee accrues until the end of time...;)
LL1
Ripping off the library
by eric90230 - 5/7/05 1:27 PM In reply to: PUBLIC LIBRARY by AAAA>> The entire accessible Internet is a "public library" <<
What makes you think so?
>> anything downloaded from it is free and useable for private use <<
Nope. It's probably unethical and often illegal.
It kills me when people try to justify getting stuff for free.
I've downloaded music myself in the past, but I'd never claim it's ethical. Now I pay as I go.
Look at the history, man!
by AAAA - 5/8/05 8:10 AM In reply to: Ripping off the library by eric90230Public libraries are able to share books, tapes, videos & other copyrighted media to an unlimited number of people.
The Internet was started as a sharing device between educational and government institutions, just like a library. It now transcends all borders of any one government and any set of laws. It is the truest form of free speech greater than any other form of communication. Are you willing to let one government impose a set of laws (and taxes) on it?
Think for a moment about a standard HTML web page. Copyrighted or not, each visitor automatically downloads the page (the browser's cache) and the material stays on the user's computer for months. It is the responsibility of the person posting the information to determine if they want the information to be made "public". As people and companies began using the Internet for commercial uses the assumed (wrongly) that their "rights" would be protected on the Internet. This assumption would defeat the entire concept of the Internet.
The Internet should be viewed as free as the air itself. Consider this: Are you violating a copyright law if you invite friends & neighbors to view a DVD you just purchased for yourself? How about if you are listening to a CD in a public park on your "boom box", should you be forced to always wear headphones so no one else can hear it (OK, sometimes I wish they would turn it down, but I wouldn't want it imposed on me)?
It's the responsibility of the person with the copyrighted material to protect the copyright of that material (i.e. person who purchased the CD or DVD from the store). Once it's posted on the Internet the damage has already been done. It's the person posting the information for the first time that is violating the law, not the downloader or file sharer. It has to be that way or anyone accessing the Internet is violating the law!
Speech may be limited in some in some respects (yelling fire.. blah blah), but listening (or viewing) anything placed into a free media like the Internet or the air should remain free for the listener or viewer.
I'm sure some of you out there will take exception, but study what I have said, it's your own existing rights you are limiting by imposing laws where none currently exist. Don't let a few companies with commercial interests take control of our Internet.
Look at the world today
by eric90230 - 5/8/05 12:20 PM In reply to: Look at the history, man! by AAAAThanks for your response.
>> Public libraries are able to share books, tapes, videos & other copyrighted media to an unlimited number of people. <<
Which is still irrelevant, because public libraries don’t give you free copies permanently.
>> The Internet … Are you willing to let one government impose a set of laws (and taxes) on it? <<
Nope, mainly because it would be impossible. The internet is basically uncontrollable, which is basically good. However, cheating is still cheating, and stealing is still stealing.
>> Are you violating a copyright law if you invite friends & neighbors to view a DVD you just purchased for yourself? <<
Nope, unless I give them a permanent copy.
>> It's the person posting the information for the first time that is violating the law, not the downloader or file sharer. <<
Questions of legality aside, it’s unethical. It’s like receiving stolen goods. And you can’t defend getting CD’s and DVD’s for free.
>> but listening (or viewing) anything placed into a free media like the Internet or the air should remain free for the listener or viewer. <<
That still doesn’t mean it’s okay to get a permanent copy for free.
>> it's your own existing rights you are limiting by imposing laws <<
Oh please. I have a RIGHT to free CD’s and free DVD’s? Ridiculous. People throw around the word “rights” way too often these days.
>> Don't let a few companies with commercial interests take control of our Internet. <<
First, nobody wants to (or could) control the internet, so relax. Second, “companies with commercial interests” is known as capitalism.
I've downloaded music myself in the past, but I'd never claim it's ethical. Now I pay as I go.
Not too far apart..
by AAAA - 5/8/05 3:49 PM In reply to: Look at the world today by eric90230And thanks for your reply.
I don't think we that are too far apart on our opinions. Sure, I don't believe in "receiving stolen property", we just differ in the opinion on what is "stolen". As for myself, I don't use any of the popular file sharing programs and I have hundreds of purchased CD's, videos, & DVD's. The only thing I download is TV shows I have missed or would like to see again, and software I would like to try (which I purchase if it works well for me). As for the TV shows, there is no difference if I had recorded off the air or downloaded it off the Internet. As for both TV shows & software, I eventually delete the material. If it's something I want to keep, I go out and buy it. Not to get a "legal" copy, but to get the pretty packaging that will look good on the shelf. It's also more cost effective for me to buy it if I want it.
If I had a friend who wanted to borrow one of my purchased videos, I would have no problem loaning it to them, as long as they returned it. The same would be true if I digitized it and sent him a copy over the Internet, under the same conditions. Perfectly legal under fair usage (as reported by other posts in this forum). I don't have any problem with someone borrowing the same thing from the public library, or downloading it from the Internet.
As for the public library, if you read my first post again, I said a user would view the material and "return or destroy it". Not keep it permanently. If everyone were to treat the content they downloaded the same as "checking it out" would we still have the same problem?
Perhaps we need new legislation to define what is fair usage in respect to the Internet. If you put it to a vote, what do you think the outcome would be?
A few ideas to make things "legal":
A downloader would use the material for a limited length of time (30 to 90 days?), then delete it.
If a CD or DVD is burned, it would be clearly labeled "temporary copy" or whatever and would also be destroyed after a short time, if needed.
Uploaders would agree to include the copyright information and source with the content, and a downloader or "borrower" would use this information to pay a license fee if they decided they wanted to keep it, or destroy it if not. [Record companies would probably make more money this way than selling retail.]
{Write your congressperson or representative. 
}
Even though I believe the above would be true under current laws, perhaps it needs to be spelled out in black & white.
You may think it a bit odd to place the responsibility on the individual to keep it "legal", but look at this blog, most people are defending the "rights" of the record company & studios, even though they have interest in assuring they get their bucks (I whish someone would defend my right to make money). People *can* police themselves.
Sorry about the rant...
Reasonable debate
by eric90230 - 5/14/05 10:04 AM In reply to: Not too far apart.. by AAAA>> if you read my first post again, I said a user would view the material and "return or destroy it". Not keep it permanently. If everyone were to treat the content they downloaded the same as "checking it out" would we still have the same problem? <<
No problem there. I sincerely wish your proposal was realistic.
>> Perhaps we need new legislation <<
Oy, new legislation is almost NEVER a solution. I’d say we need more morality, not more laws.
>> to define what is fair usage in respect to the Internet. If you put it to a vote, what do you think the outcome would be? <<
I can’t predict. I can only say I would think the outcome was either a good idea or a bad idea. The majority is not always right. Plus, I prefer to address the ethics of the question, not the legality. Not everything that’s immoral is illegal, thank God. LOL
>> Uploaders would agree to include the copyright information and source with the content, and a downloader or "borrower" would use this information to pay a license fee if they decided they wanted to keep it, or destroy it if not. [Record companies would probably make more money this way than selling retail.] <<
I don’t see how you could enforce the temporary nature of this downloading.
>> most people are defending the "rights" of the record company & studios, even though they have interest in assuring they get their bucks (I wish someone would defend my right to make money). <<
Well, I’m defending the sellers’ right to TRY to make money. I’m attacking the idea of getting free CD’s when the legitimate sellers don’t want them to be free.
>> People *can* police themselves. <<
And we need police - and parenting - for those who don’t police themselves.
>> Sorry about the rant <<
Hey, you’re very reasonable. Not once did you call me a doo-doo-head, at least not in print. LOL
History?
by jayso - 5/8/05 1:45 PM In reply to: Look at the history, man! by AAAAthey made me study history in school. I was looking at stuff that was not mine that I didn't particularly want to see. were they doing illegal stuff??? can they be sued or put in jail??? If the megacorp could figure out a way to charge for breathing would we have to pay by the year, month, week, day, or just every breath? some people breathe more than others.
Illegal to copy books/music from a public library too!
by MicahW - 5/10/05 4:12 PM In reply to: PUBLIC LIBRARY by AAAAThe difference here is when you download something from the internet you now have a copy of the original. When you check out a book from the library you read it and bring it back. It is illegal to make a copy of that book - even if you got it from a library! It is illegal to make a copy of the book if you bought it! The publisher and/or the author are the ones that own the content. This applies to music, books, paintings, photos, software, movies - in fact all forms of artwork. If you wrote a song or book I bet you would be concerned with all this piracy. Downloading other people’s work is STEALING plain and simple. Don’t do it!
Legality of downloading Music Videos
by Bhavik1 - 5/6/05 1:29 PM In reply to: 5/6/05 What's safe and legal to download using a file-sharing program? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Can you let me know if downloading music videos is illegal as well? If so, why are these not available for purchase? Thanks.
can't buy?
by jayso - 5/8/05 1:48 PM In reply to: Legality of downloading Music Videos by Bhavik1haven't been in a music store lately, but you used to be able to buy them right after MTV made them popular.
Kazaa and Limewire
by hdimalanta - 5/6/05 1:31 PM In reply to: 5/6/05 What's safe and legal to download using a file-sharing program? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
You will regret ever installing Kazaa and Limewire on your computer. My two sons did on our home desktop computer. Within months, our home computer was inundated with spyware and advertisements from Kazaa and Limewire associated companies...
Within a year my computer started taking forever to process any kind of computer programs or internet. The spyware and advertisements would burrow itself into the hard drive and take up storage and memory space like a slow Virus...
Then, one day, I could not even open or start up the computer due to lack of sufficient memory to process.
What ever you do, forget Kazaa and Limewire. Spend the 99 cents per song on Apple or others. Illegal actions lead to your worse nightmares.
Oh, the best advise anyone ever told me about computers, Back up, Back up, Back up, often... your data or files.
A possible solution to doing it legally
by Latinlover1 - 5/6/05 1:38 PM In reply to: 5/6/05 What's safe and legal to download using a file-sharing program? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi again,
As some have already mentioned (including myself) it should be absolutely legal to d/l MP3's of songs that we've legally purchased. However, the time involved in searching for the songs (I have hundreds of legally purchsed CD's), waiting in a queue, and eventually d/ling them doesn't really make it worthwhile. I found a solution to this that I'd like to share with you all. If you've legally purchased the CD you can just check the internet for a conversion program. These are totally free and do a great job...not only can you convert from .WAV (CD files) to MP3 (as well as other formats) but you can also convert them back to .WAV and burn them back onto a blank cd if your original is ever scratched/destroyed. To this end I use "dBpowerAMP Music Converter". Works great, provides great quality conversion, and is fast. Do a search and give it a try. I don't know if it's still available and/or free but if it is it's definitely worth the price...free!
LL1
Don't !
by KAVN - 5/6/05 1:51 PM In reply to: 5/6/05 What's safe and legal to download using a file-sharing program? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi!
In my opinion, there is just one answer to your question: don't use file-share programs at all !!
What you are doing is to say: "Hi, out there - no matter who you are or what you want to put on my
computer, just do it - it's complete wide-open, and I neither want nor can't control whatever you're
doing - btw: the password and code to my Internet-bank is here:......"
If you were an insurance agent, what would you think of a person doing so with his house and after-
wards complained of being stolen?
Best greetings from
Kim Nissen
Hi
by Latinlover1 - 5/6/05 2:11 PM In reply to: Don't ! by KAVNHi Kim,
While what you're saying is extremely true, it really doesn't apply to everyone.
I, for one, have absolutely no passwords/logins whatsoever stored on my computer. Mind you, I've been banking electronically from my PC for many years.
I don't allow any cookies to be stored on my PC unless I want them there, my cache is set to keep ZERO days in history, I scan my computer for adware/bloatware/viruses/etc. when I am done for the day, I use a hardware AND software firewall...in short I take every single precaution available.
If we are knowledgeable and careful there are ways to avoid the many pitfalls that await us on a daily basis on the internet. All it takes is a little common sense and ALOT of precaution. Mind you, I also always suggest that people steer clear of Kazaa and most other P2P networks...especially people that are not computer savvy.
LL1
But the others then?
by KAVN - 5/8/05 5:49 AM In reply to: Hi by Latinlover1Hi Latinlover1,
I do the same things as you, too, and nevertheless I wouldn't dare to use KaZaa. What about all the folks, then, who don't know about elementary protection? I meen: you have to know REAL much about your computer and how to ptotect it to "safely" use filesharing. Is it possible at all, and, more realistically, IF possible, how many do take these precautions then?
Best greetings from
Kim Nissen
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