Community Newsletter: Q&A: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer?
- 4/22/05 2:56 PM
Griffin is right! Lee, how could that answer possibly win?
by danparkcityut - 4/22/05 8:21 AM In reply to: The worst computer advice I ever read. Seriously. by griffin6002I am amazed! It appears Griffin is the only participant even close to hitting the nail on the head here...
When you buy that PROPRIETARY junk from Dull (or whoever), you are saddled with THEIR version of an OS, THEIR version of drivers, THEIR version of upgrade paths, THEIR version of customer support, and THEIR version of the prices you will pay for service, support, or upgrades! And no, you will not have a pure Windows operating system, you will have a bloat that you will not be able to troubleshoot every time on your own. When the warranty runs out, you will not only be put on hold for hours at a time when you go to them for help, you will also be paying THEIR prices for what little help they might be able to offer.
Whether it's about saving money at the moment of purchase, or (especially) in the long run, or "satisfaction in building your own", or whatever other criteria... your own generic system is flat the best route to go.
Lee, there are probably many people counting on you for sound advice, how could you possibly have chosen that answer? It only addresses the tip of the iceberg on this topic and does not do a novice proper service at all.
Oh, and by the way,
by danparkcityut - 4/22/05 8:38 AM In reply to: Griffin is right! Lee, how could that answer possibly win? by danparkcityutTHEIR version of the software you want or need? How can that be? They sure aren't going to tell you about the free (and, IMHO) often superior alternatives to Norton, M$ Office, Photoshop, and many other types of software. They are going to either sell you an installed version or let the "Free 30 day trial" loose on the system they send you (for which they are rewarded by the supplier, and for which you will pay to use past the free trial period). And good luck getting your own copy of the real software CD (EVEN the OS!), by the way...
Time for a cold shower, I guess. It just frustrates me no end to see such crummy advice thrown out at people who are looking for, need, and deserve better. Any novice who takes that kind of advice is, practically, being preyed upon. Worse yet, it is likely many who do will never bother to find the real answer they need for lack of feeling the need to look for it again.
Lee, shame on you.
Failing to understand...
by tcervo - 4/22/05 9:16 AM In reply to: Griffin is right! Lee, how could that answer possibly win? by danparkcityutWhat so many posters on this board are failing to understand, is that buying off the shelf does not necessarily buying a proprietary name brand like Dell or HP/Compaq. Many retailers offer "generic" pre-builts, using non-proprietary parts, offering all the service advantages of building yourself. These are priced so agressively these days, hoping to cash in on ancillary sales (software, add-on components, etc.) that it's nearly impossible to save money building it yourself. I can go down to my local Fry's Electronics and get their "house brand" for *less* than the cost of the individual components. I've added up exactly, down to the make/model of the motherboard, and they are selling it for less as a pre-built system.
Still, I recommend building your own at least once, just for the knowledge and satisfaction. Plus, it'll make upgrading down the road (adding new drives, etc.) far less daunting for a beginner.
Agreed Again
by caseys_32 - 4/22/05 11:35 AM In reply to: Failing to understand... by tcervoI also agree with this post. I was involved in selling computers I build on Ebay for a while. Even though there are some questionable sellers there, it might be a good option to find a customized PC (with high quality componeents) at an amazing price. But I'm with everyone else in thinking the knowledge of actually reseaching and building a PC yourself goes a long ways.
THATS IT!!! I
by Bigtrust1 - 4/22/05 5:23 PM In reply to: Griffin is right! Lee, how could that answer possibly win? by danparkcityutWhen somebody uses the P word(Prporietary), it tells me they have no clue what they are talking about. It also tells me they have NO vision OR experience. When I got a compaq 8 years ago, I was told that I coundn't upgrade the audio, video, HDD, or the RAM because it was PROPRIETARY! B.S. from so called experts and custom builders. They were wrong. I was told by these so called experts that my Dell 8300 pwr supply and mobo
are proprietary. Guess what? Wrong again! people that use the word proprietary have a "It can't be done" attitude that really ticks me off. Sure there are going to be limits to how far you can upgrade, but that mostly depends on what you start with.
Currently I have 3 Dells, a Toshiba, a Gateway and 2 custom built systems(yes I built them!)AND THEY ALL PERFORM FLAWLESSLY with various off the shelf upgrades.
In the past 5 years, computer manufacturers have been forced to make their systems more compatible with off the shelf parts because it costs less to buy something that is already available than to engineer it from scratch.
And would somebody PLEEEEASE tell me what a proprietary operating system is! As far as I know 1 copy of windows xp home edition full version is around $200 AND THE LISCENSE IS ONLY GOOD FOR ONE COMPUTER!JUST LIKE THE OEM DISK THAT COMES WITH THE BLOATED EXTRAS THAT CAN BE VERY EASILY REMOVED(See Add/Remove Programs).
If you look inside a Dell 8400 you will find THE SAME parts that you will pay a lot more for if you bought them seperately(Intel, ati/nvidia, creative, etc)that are totally upgradable. AND you get a dual layer/format DVD burner AND LCD monitor for well under $1000 - the fact is: YOU CAN'T COME CLOSE TO THAT BUILDING IT YOURSELF!!!
So do yourself a favor when someone uses the "p" word - walk away!
That's what????
by danparkcityut - 4/23/05 8:15 AM In reply to: THATS IT!!! I by Bigtrust1Bigtrust, of course you can hack away at your Dulls and any other box. I've done it many times too. But we are talking about a novice here!
Lame power supplies and boxes with only one 5.25 external bay? Come on, Bigshot, and you don't impress anyone when you YELL ALL OF YOUR CRAP ADVICE, either.
The word is
by dweave - 4/23/05 2:18 PM In reply to: THATS IT!!! I by Bigtrust1Proprietary;
Owned by a private individual or corporation under a trademark or patent:
$200 for XP Home?
by danparkcityut - 4/24/05 1:47 PM In reply to: THATS IT!!! I by Bigtrust1Why are there so many posts here about $200 XP Home? And these posts are from people who think their advice is viable? Anyone with an ounce of sense knows they can get this OS for under $100, legally, and with very little effort!
I think you are correct...
by Destroyer250 - 4/23/05 8:41 AM In reply to: The worst computer advice I ever read. Seriously. by griffin6002Well, if you look at all the ads on this site from computer manufacturers it makes sense that cnet chose that answer. You cannot review DIY computers... and no one pays bigs bucks for banners for ide cables...
Based on your post I might just build my next computer on my own.
D
Griffon6002 you are SO correct!
by funkid7 - 4/23/05 4:28 PM In reply to: The worst computer advice I ever read. Seriously. by griffin6002I have built several macs from free parts and A friend of mine is still using one of those power macs today to read his daughters e-mail. The fun part is in building these "Desktop Hotrods". and That is what they are after all. I can change out the chassis to put in duel engines, neon it inside and out, pinstirpe it etc. I can build a dunebuggy for pennies or a Dragster for big bucks, just like building a custom car, dont you think? It can definitely be cheaper to build your own and MUCH more rewarding.
Build It yourself
by RedFox314 - 4/26/05 1:46 AM In reply to: The worst computer advice I ever read. Seriously. by griffin6002There is only one risky thing to do in building your computer yourself: Attaching the processor to the motherboard and fitting the heatsink. The rest is quite easy. Most computer shops i know of (here in belgium anyway) will do that for you for a small fee of $ 6-7 for that small fee you get the guarantee that if something goes wrong INTEL or AMD can't blame it on you (user abuse) - which happens quite a lot -because the fitting has been done by a qualified technician. And believe me you easily bend a pin on a processor and that is not easily bent back, mostly it wrecks your new processor.
Another thing BEWARE for static electricity. ALWAYS touch a piece of UNPAINTED metal before touching anything in your computer.
Work with unmagnetized screwdrivers, those things will kill your computer.
If your computer is quite old, you havn't learned to worry about cooling.
1) Buy a big enough case, this will keep your temperature low. The ideal temperature of a computer is 30-50 degrees, the higher your avarage temperature the quicker wear out.
2) Outside your case: your case should have 30-50 cm around which are free of anything it needs to be able vent it's hot air but the hot air needs to be replaced by something: be air from outside the case.
3) do a little investment (of $10-15) and ask the computer shop to apply Arctic Silver 5 it will increase the heat conductivity of the connection between your processor and your heatsink, giving you a cooler processor.
If you take care of these things: Have fun with your computer. I think it very rewarding to build your computer from scratch. You learn a lot of it and you don't depend on telephone no-helpdesks anymore.
I am not quite sure of the savings but the thing is you are certain of every component being in good order.
One more thing when in doubt stick to a brand. This doesn't mean your computer has to be of the same brand in all its components. It does mean if you have to choose between a non brand and a brand component and you're not sure go for the brand one. The brand mostly means 'guarantee of a minimum quality'. It is like an insurance you also pay for something you most likely won't collect but what if...
Recommendations
ASUS for motherboard
INTEL or AMD find that out for yourself: overview
INTEL has a virtual dual core i think this means 2 computing units but one control unit
AMD 64 processes 2x the amount of data each clock cycle. In raw computing power this means AMD 64 is a lot quicker. But the intel processors should be a bit bettir in MultiThreading, doing a lot of things at once.
HDD: Maxtor or Seagate: each have their pro and cons.
ATI for graphical card
Zalman for quiet cooling
Nexus for your power supply (quiet also)
Case is your personal preference
Couldn't have said it any better myself
by marshman11 - 4/22/05 7:12 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have done both. Buy new and build and while building offers me more personal satisfaction, it also offers potentially more headaches. Some of the motherboard manufacturers don't offer enough detail in their manuals so you my apply the wrong polarity on a component which in turn renders that component useless (until you correct it) or in some cases can short other components in your system. My advice, if you are looking for a kick a$$ gaming machine then build it yourself. However, if you are looking for something to basically surf, burn come cd's or dvd's, or become a media center then buy one off the shelf. Pricegrabber and NewEgg.com are good places to shop for the best prices on new systems or components. Dell is also a good company to buy complete systems. Try and wait until the end of the month or a holiday to purchase from them as they offer good sales during those times!
You shouldn't build, YOU MUST!
by Mr. Jinks - 4/22/05 7:26 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Kenny, it's true that buying a builded machine is quicker and easier, but there are a few reasons that worth the challenge of building your own machine.
First of all, you know what you are building. When you buy a computer you don't know what do you have inside (of course you know the speed of the CPU, the RAM memory size, etc, but you ignore the quality of the components).
You can customize your machine. Last week, for example, I built my new computer. It has plenty of coolers, and some rare stuff that I like (hehe, you can call me a maniatic).
And the last reason, it's exciting!! You learn a lot about how does the computer works. It's the best "on-the-job" trainning.
Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Well Said
by dweave - 4/23/05 2:38 PM In reply to: You shouldn't build, YOU MUST! by Mr. JinksWell said Mr. Jinks, it is true when you build your own you know what’s inside. And with the right mobo the tweaks are endless. With an off the self-system the tweaks are minimal.
I look at Computers like I look at fast cars, the faster the better. The difference is, it’s easier and cheaper to make a computer faster. Yes, I’m a tweak nut! I once had a 486 DX2 66 MHz that was just as fast if not faster then an 800 MHz just by all the tweaking I did. This was a home built system. But it got to the point that the newer software was not being supported anymore for 486 systems. So it was time to move on. Build Your Own it’s a great feeling.
Don
dcweave@msn.com
Build, build, build and then, maybe buy off-the-shelf
by kal9000 - 4/22/05 7:43 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
With respect to all opinions, here is mine (with a lot of experience):
If your use of a computer only involves word processing and web surfing, it doesn't matter what you buy, there are phones that can do both. So we'll assume you want more.
You probably will end up spending more for a self-built PC, but for an intirely different reason: you see, when you buy separate components, you tend to get the best that you can afford (as opposed to off-shelf systems that are under $500, but have components that are already obsolete, and should cost nothing).
For example, by 2005 standards, no self-respectable build-your-own-PC person will use 128MB of RAM in his/her PC, neither will he/she go for that 40 or 60 GB hard drive that most off-shelf bargains boast .
Ask about details of any brand name bargain-PC's components, and -if you can still find them on the market- check their prices, and I guarantee you will find it less expensive to buy the separate components. A lot less! Bargain-PCs are simply ones that cannot be sold otherwise.
Bottom line: you will SPEND MORE, because you will buy BETTER components. So, if it is a question of budget, definitely build your own because, for about the same price, you can build yourself a better machine.
If you decide to build, even if you're not an expert, here are some notes and advice:
1- You learn, learn and learn (I assume you're tech-inclined, by the fact that you're thinking of building your own)...Good.
2- Sorry if I don't write about how to DIY, but this has been covered extensively by all the other posts, which proves that even if you're not experienced, you know you won't be alone if an when you have a problem...Good
3- Building your own PC would take considerable time and it certainly will be a challenge, but fortunately, if you need to, you can use your old computer in the meantime...Good?
4- Satisfaction guaranteed. Frustrations possible but even more satisfaction (and learning)when problems are solved. (most posts mention this fact). So it's about the feeling...Good.
5- You gain the capability and flexibility to upgrade, renew and even rebuild your PC...Good.
6- Sadly, with "Windows Longhorn" in the horizon (mid 2006), and the total change of hardware specs that will come with it (i.e. 64-bit procesing, 3-D display adaptors with lots of ram onboard, bigger/better monitors, bigger/faster disk drives and definitely more -a lot more- recommended RAM), my personnal recommendation would be: Unless you really and critically need the new PC, put this decision on hold for a few more months, as most hardware you buy today will definitely become obsolete in the very near future...Bad.
I hope this helped, and not frustrated you.
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