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Community Newsletter: Q&A: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer?
- 4/22/05 2:56 PM
Some valid issues in the winning answer
by wheelzup - 4/22/05 9:37 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I can see some of the points being true in James's answer but as many have stated getting a system together that is exactly as you want it building it yourself is by far the best route to go. You give yourself options that off the shelf manufacturers can only dream of except for a very select few. Cost is much easier to control for every piece of hardware you wish to use. About the only drawback is you'll have to purchase your own software unless you already have what you need and use most often. In fact that could be considered a completely new question in that how often should you upgrade software applications. I try to go every other year unless there's such a drastic change in a program it's worth shelling out the extra money for.
I general if want to build it yourself there are loads of web sites and question-answer help forums around you can usually get pretty good advice on what to get and if you're having any trouble putting it all together.
Building your own.
by jackamus - 4/22/05 9:39 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
That's a load of crap. I can build a cheaper pc than I can getting one from any name builder. I just did today in fact for 780.00 / P4-3.4 1GIGMEM. It's not hard to do. Just have to shop around for deals and specials. Only reason this site is telling you that you can't is because they get kickbacks from advertising.
even if it's about the $$$$
by catcom2159 - 4/22/05 9:41 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
When purchasing a computer or building one you have to ask yourself what you want to do with it. Money may be a factor but you get what you pay for. If you buy a preconfigured PC, unless you request specific hardware you wind up with OEM crap. This stuff may functions fine for what it's advertised but expectations usually falls short for the consumer.
Multimedia, games and other system reliant software may bring your new purchase to it's knees. While building your own PC may be a hands on and slightly more expensive option, you get what you want and the knowledge of how things are put together. With that knowledge you will be able to troubleshoot simple hardware problems, avoid costly repairs and have the satisfaction of fixing your own stuff.
The bottom line is ask yourself what you are going to be using your PC for and then design around it. That way you won't be disappointed when you fire up that game or application.
One other thing for those who wish to build their own:
Remember when opening the case of your PC, ALWAYS have ESD protection. Wear a ESD strap and ground yourself to a reliable source. ESD damage is easily done and seems like a insignificant issue. However just brushing your hand on your sleeve is enough to build a static charge sufficient to damage hardware.
i found the answer to this question short
by rebel1803 - 4/22/05 9:50 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Unless off the shelf (ots)systems have changed recently, one of the things I find troubling about most is the proprietarty issues and the lack of system information attached to these systems about there capabilities. Many sytems that I have looked at in the past boast processing speed or what have you, but upon examination, have little or no capability to upgrade the processor or the memory.
Sure they were cheap systems but at the end of the day the key word was cheap, and the reality that stared me in the face was that all systems were obsolete before they even left the shelf.
If all you want a pc for is to play the games packaged with windows or to send and recieve email an off the shelf pc will do fine. If you want to play any of the new video games, or edit video or multi task, show me a good off the shelf pc with an x850 xt(ATI Video graphics card)that doesnt cost 2000 bucks.
I found parts at an online vender that where superior to any found in an ots system and when all was said and done i have a pc for under $1200 bucks that consists of an x800 xt w/256 DDR3 memory and 256 bit capability video card, 1.5 gyge of ddr 2 memory expandable to 4 gyge, a pentium 4 3.0 processor upgradable to 3.6+, 160 gyge hard drive, 16X dvd+/- burner, 475 watt power supply and is far superior to all cheaper ots systems. Also all of the parts come with a manufacturers warranty of one year, some longer. In my experience the more reputable companies are more than happy to stand behind their product lines. i will never buy a ots system again
Build the computer!!!
by skywavebe - 4/22/05 9:53 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I don't know where these other guys get their information as the experience that I have had is exactly opposite to some of these opinions. Name brand computers always mean trouble which range from Major Headaches requiring hours to days to resolve if they can be resolved at all. Gateway seemed to always answer phones in a more resonable time than Dell or HP/Compaq. The first rule I have gone with in over 57 computers is dump Intel- there is no reason to pay outrageous prices for a second grade processor. What do you think Dell uses all the time-that is why you have to be a "Dude" another name for retart to buy their stuff.
AMD is the way to go, good memory with heat spreaders, a case with a good amount of ventilation- not opposing fans, and the parts you want to use and pay for. The options are entirely in your control. Price? I have always beat the name brands as far as cost of the items when you really examine what you get from them. Why would I want to compare a Celeron to a computer with a good AMD processor such as the well known and used Anthlon 2500XP. There is no comparison. It is true that there are a lot of crooks on E bay selling cheap stuff that you can not trust so buy for cheaper from Newegg or just price items off Pricewatch and check out the feedbacks before you buy. If a vendor has 50% positive feedback there must be a reason for it and you will be another statistic. So far I have 99% good results from Newegg. Computergeeks can also supply good parts but they also sell refurb so pay attention.
In conclusion: If you pick parts at the 70 to 80% level of the top of the line you will always come out with a computer that will be acceptable and work for a long time. I do not like fans on video cards- so far they have all failed in about a year. I run all my computers 24/7 which you may not. To build a computer you need to know what you want and what the items you are buying are for. Now the high end is FX64 if you can afford it and PCI Express is now coming in to replace AGP. If you can not afford the FX64 then an Anthlon 3000XP will do a good job for you at a lower price- look for specials and get on E mail lists. Tiger Direct can give you a deal now and then too like 200GB HD at $89.00.
Don't be at the mercy of the big companies as they really don't care about the customer JUST profits. If you can not build your own computer, seek out an Engineer or IT person who knows what he is doing and they can do it for you for a little more. You will still come out ahead!
Warranty vs whose warranty
by chazr - 4/22/05 10:21 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Lots of great suggestions.
As an IT professional I build my own systems and it takes me less than hour (less OS installation). However, a co-worker raised a very valid issue as I was receiving numerous boxes at the office the last time that I assembled a computer.
He purchased his most recent system so that he does not have to identify exactly which component has fried when something goes wrong, look up the warranty, locate his receipt for that component and send the offending hardware off to the manufacturer for repair/replacement.
As far as I am concerned there is a great deal of value to his argument. Not enough to sway me personally, but it is something to consider.
Chazr
Should I buy or build a computer?
by Exhell - 4/22/05 10:22 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
In my opinion the answer to that question is both. I myself made several visits to different computer stores looking for a off the shelf computer. The idea to this is to find something cheap, without to much hardware to it or only with the hardware that you will use, and to buy the hardware you want seperatly and add it. I got a system that was fairly barebone, came without a screen and not much fancy stuff in it. The idea was to get windows xp and the software with a little bit of hardware for cheap. So i could go buy my own motherboard/graphic card/cpu and throw them all into the tower i already have. I spent maybe a total of 900$ (keep in mind this was last year and thats canadian money) to get a 2600amd/9200 radeon/and a biostar nForce2 board. i consider this a good deal seing as how alone windows xp cost 200 or so bucks. So get as much off the shelf as you can and will use, then add the upgrades you want.
There's a third way to go
by wresnick - 4/22/05 10:56 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
If I had to ask myself how many computers I've owned, I could not come up with an easy answer. I bought a 386 way back, and I once bought a Pentium (I) 133, but that's it. The rest was done as part of a stream of upgrades. When I did buy my Pentium for home use, my company got me a Pentium 166 at the same time for $1000 more. In two years, they were equally obsolete, but upgrading my home computer a year later cost far less than $1000 to make it a Pentium II.
I've had computers on which every component had been upgraded, except for the 1.44 floppy, but even that gets changed if I switch to a black case from a white one. But the upgrades did not happen at the same time.
If you know how to upgrade, the real issue is why you need an upgrade. If you have a bottleneck in terms of memory, the upgrade is simple. If you need more CPU, chances are you want to change the motherboard and processor. If your disks are too full or too slow, you probably need to change them. It might pay to get a new motherboard at the time if your built-in controller won't hack it, especially if the price difference is not so great compared to a new external controller. But if you upgrade as these problems occur, you probably won't hit them all at once.
On the other hand, you need to consider the technology shifts. Going from a 486 to a Pentium did not seem like a realistic upgrade. Motherboards changed their form factors, memory type, etc. Going from a Pentium III to a Pentium 4 with a standard motherboard required a different type of memory. And the latest generation of processors which need DDR2 will make you get at least a new motherboard, processor, and memory. So there are times that a new computer is more of a viable option than others.
Personally, I've never had a computer last close to four years. But I've never found myself with bottlenecks in more than one area at a time. If I don't need a new monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc., and my disk drives (HD, DVD burner, etc.) are still current, I'll buy what I need.
If you have a need because of a fundamental change in how you use your computer, it's possible for all these needs to change at once. If you need a new digital monitor, super video card, and super fast processor for video rendering and animation for instance, patching your old system is not an option.
I tend to stay away from cutting edge technology, but still meet my needs. So what I'm running is typically no better than what you are running a year after you buy a new machine. But chances are that two years after you buy a computer, I'm a year ahead of you, and on average, I have a well above average computer. Prices drop and I get what I need.
Just keep the big picture in mind. Don't buy $80 memory just because your motherboard supports it if faster memory is on sale for $40, and a $50 motherboard blows away your current one. Don't buy a power supply when there is a super sale on cases that include a top notch one. Look at the market at the time you want to make a change, and run the numbers then. The rules change from one day to another, and not everything goes on sale at once. Don't buy things that require things you don't yet have, unless you know that your purchase is imminent.
So you can buy, you can build, or you can rebuild over time until every component has changed several times over. If you're the type who can put the parts together in under an hour and have a PC that boots up the first time, then I'd suggest option 3. It's cheapest. It's the most flexible. And it keeps you from finding yourself with a bottom end machine four years later.
You should try it.
by mjdaly - 4/22/05 11:00 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
As far as the costs of doing it yourself, when you get into the performance area, you might save some money. Right now my computer is worth about $1400. To have a company go and build me one that has the specs that my computer hasyou wont find these specs just OEM)is over $1600. Plus you know the quality of all your parts.
4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer
by pincher - 4/22/05 11:23 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have built several computers, including the 64bit I am now using. Is it cheaper? probably not, but it is a lot more fun than one off the shelf from some computer supplier. Another advantage is that you can build it to your spec. You may also find that the supplier of your 'bits' is often only to glad to help. A word of warning, the hardware is comparitively straight forward, and you can purchase a 'new computer' windows programme for less than £70, but, they can be a pig to set up. Having rebuilt or scratch built several CPUs now, I think it is well worth the effort and, as already stated, you learn an awful lot about the 'inerds' of the magic box. A point I would make is that the adition of a new mother board may be all you need. You can 'reuse' any bits. Adding a second hard drive also meens that you keep all the software you have on hard disc.
Pincher
Tailor made...
by waterspit - 4/22/05 11:42 AM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
What you get if you build it yourself...a computer that is EXACTLY what you want. For example, most off the shelf units feature integrated graphics motherboard. This is OK if you're using your computer for typing letters, accessing email, etc but inadequate for today's games and graphic intensive software.
I recently built my 2nd computer. I scoured the local adds, bought all components either on sale or with rebate, and for $650 (after rebates) ended up with the following:
MSI K8N mobo, AMD64 3200+, 1GB Ram, GeForce 6800OC,160GB Sata (2), DVD R/RW. I reused my old CD R/RW and stuffed everything into a new alum case (on sale too). I haven't seen any off the shelf that comes close to this system for the $$$.
Oh, guess I should add $95 for Windows XP Pro, which I purchased on eBay and originally had installed on my old computer.
Should I buy or build?
by p_garceau - 4/22/05 12:02 PM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Greetings --
As someone who has built his own "killer machine" at a fraction of the cost of purchasing an "off-the-shelf" (OTS) machine, I would have to agree that it is "extremely important" to have a sense of what exactly you "need".
A scale of needs -- "low end"=Generic user; "high end"=Advanced user:
"Generic user" -- someone who doesn't do anything except email, IM, online forms, writing reports or doing spreadsheets. Someone who could care less about anything except whether or not the machine fulfills basic needs.
"Intermediate user" -- someone who needs to be able to handle database manipulation, requires high quality streaming video support, uses high-speed (<=3Mbs download) internet whenever they use their computer, basic online game support.
"Advanced user" -- someone who needs to be able to: compile a million+ lines of code in less than an hour and then debug them, uses HCI (>=3 Mbs), video editing, systems development, PC surround sound support, CAD, Multimedia Presentation Preview, LAN support (more than two or three other PCs -- remote or local), systems or software development"
"Killer Game Machine" -- Self explanatory.
Given the categories above, any user who is Intermediate or above probably should consider a "roll-your-own" system configuration.
The reason, most of the systems that include that support for the last three requirements (including the "high end" Intermediate user" can not be purchased OTS for less than a grand ($1000 USD). The "low end" Intermediate user can purchase an OTS machine for less than $800 USD; they can also build one for about the same price (depending on your digital electronics supplier).
If you are a basic user or you don't know the difference between a Mainboard and a PCI slot, then stay away from building your own machine; ie. unless you are truly ready to "make the plunge" into the world of digital electronics.
Paul G.
What do you want to do?
by Pimruit - 4/22/05 12:08 PM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The first thing you should ask yourself is: what do I want to do with this computer? Then you'll see that most off-the-shelf models have either components you won't be using and/or lacking components you do need.
When I bought my computer I went to a store that offered a mix-and-match option. Mind you, I live in the Netherlands so I don't know if there's such a store in the States.
This motherboard with that processor, a HDD of a required size, maybe two; know what the difference is between ATA and SATA and what you can do with RAID. What size display do you want, and do you want CRT or TFT.
Don't be afraid to ask advice from people you know you can trust and know their way around computers.
When I finally had all the components I needed (and nothing more) I had the option to take them home and assemble them myself, which is not nearly as difficult as it seems, or let the store do the assembling (at a minor fee). Whatever you decide, you'll have just the computer that is catered to your need.
Just one thing: if you should decide to let the shop build it, open the PC-case when you get home and check if all the connectors are plugged in the right socket... A friend of mine noticed hís machine was wired up wrong!
Building your own computer...especially NOW!
by drmidi - 4/22/05 12:09 PM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have many PC systems for myself and various clients over the past 8 years or so. That resulted from my needs to upgrade a rather outdated system for myself, and then I started building a complete new system from scratch. The parts were fairly cheaper to buy from various suppliers, and I certainly learned a lot in the process. No regrets there. Then others wanted a new system like mine and I did the same for them as I did for myself.
However, between 1998 and now, there have been many changes in what a personal PC requires, both in terms of hardware and software. Likewise, the prices of parts, software, and the diversity in mainboards, processor chips, graphics adapters, and many other components and peripheral devices has made the art of PC building quite a challenge. My original parts suppliers simply disappeared one day and I suspect it was because they had over-stocked with parts that they simply couldn't sell, and perhaps got killed on the cost of bulk ram purchases.
Another thing to keep in mind that with "computer building" comes "computer support," whether it is for yourself or someone else. I've been in the help desk and computer support business for a few years, so I know what I am talking about. The PCs I built really outlasted their normal life expectency and my friends and clients were calling me up at all hours of the day and night for support until I finally said to them, "It's time to move into the next generation and buy yourself a brand new PC!!" (with emphasis on the word "brand"!) I inferred by that, Brand Name, whether it was a HP, Dell, or any other brand-name PC.
But my hand-made PC lasted me and still runs well (though a bit slow by today's standards) and I decided it was finally time to upgrade my system, too. I did all of the research for parts, mainboards, graphics adapters, processors, OS, and although I could take the time to put one together for myself, I decided to get an HP Media Center 2005 (d1000y) which still leaves me plenty of room for legacy devices if I need to upgrade it. I also purchased additional on-site support at a premium, but the time I saved in configuration will now be devoted to enjoying my new system (which I already am!), after I finish transferring my important documents, web sites, media and applications over to the new machine.
The other consideration is that I now can get the support which even I would need with these newer components and applications, and have some peace of mind that my system is well-designed for internal and external compatibility. When I considered the cost of buying OEM parts vs. my present system, it simply was not worth it to build my own this time around.
I even stopped the original order and requested that the latest 600-series Intel CPU replace the original 500-series CPU (the new CPU was announced in March of this year). My new PC wasn't even assembled yet, but I insisted on this newer chipset. Why? Because of the DEP (Data Execution Prevention) feature and the ability for both 32 and 64-bit processing which will certainly be within the next generation of computer applications to come. I have CNET to thank for informing me of that development from Intel.
Bottom line is that if you have never built a PC before, you still can design a good system for yourself and learn a lot in the process. If you have both the patience and the time for this, I highly recommend it because it really gives you both a sense of understanding how your internal components work, how to configure them properly, and that sense of pride and accomplishment. However, if productivity time is of the essence, then I strongly urge you to buy something which is backed with a vendor's support package because chances are that you're going to need it, whether you think so or not. I'm not suggesting that you buy a shelf-stocked PC from a store because they are usually (if not always) missing something or compromised for the price. I think in these days with the high cost of just about everything, people are more concerned (or should be) about performance and not just a bargain price, especially with computer or electronic technology.
I purchased the HP d1000y Media Center 2005 with a 3.6 GHz 660J CPU. Quite an improvement over my PIII 500 MHz system. Am I a "happy camper?" You bet I am! My complements to hpshopping.com for this result. Their sales and support staff are quite good and they put together a great PC for all of my immediate and (hopefully) future needs. So, as the song goes, "Let the stormy clouds chase ev'ry one from the place...Come on with the rain, I have a smile on my face...I'm dancing, and singing in the rain!!! 
Buy or Build?
by JTHunter - 4/22/05 1:37 PM In reply to: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Kenny, there is one thing you need to remember. Most, but not all, off-the-shelf systems no longer come with a bootable floppy drive. Some programs still use a floppy, especially antivirus programs that use a boot disk for repairing your system. If nobody else has pointed this out (I hope they have), you need to keep this in mind. They are also correct about the expense. It will be higher, but "customizing" does have advantages.
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