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Home audio & video: Surge Protector for Home Theater
Surge Protector for Home Theater
by suzycat1 - 5/15/09 8:11 AMWe just finished putting together our home theater with new LCD TV, receiver, surround sound, DVD, and cable hook-up. We are looking for a surge protector to especially protect the new TV. I have read all of the specs regarding response time, joules, etc. We have been told that it is best to get one that also includes coaxial connectors to put the cable box through as well. Is this truly necessary, or is the electical output the only important part for protection?
surge protector or UPS?
by bearvp - 5/15/09 8:29 AM In reply to: Surge Protector for Home Theater by suzycat1Did you want to get a surge protector or a UPS? An adequate surge protector, from say Belkin, will run you $50-$100 depending on what features you want. A UPS will be able to power your TV during power outages and brown-outs giving you enough time to safely power down your TV if it has a usual 'cooling down' time after switching it off to cool down the hot bulb in the TV. I got a pretty nice UPS for $160 with a LCD display screen and 1500VA capacity. A UPS is also nice so you can keep your DVR recording a show you are in the middle of if the power goes out.
^
by jonnybones - 5/15/09 11:04 PM In reply to: Surge Protector for Home Theater by suzycat1I have a monster HTS2600MKII and it is awesome. When the power flickers, my outlets shut off as they are supposed to (until stable voltage returns) and all my equipment has survives thus far. Monster is overpriced but I didn't pay full price nor should you.
You SHOULD run your coax cable through your power center. If you think about it logically, if the cable works as an antenna, it works as an electrical conductor also...duh... Comcast will tell you not to run it through the power center, but ignore them - they are dumb. After they leave run it through your power center as you should; I do with no negative impact. Monster makes good power centers, so do Belkin (Pure-AV), Tripp Lite, and Furman.
Re: ^
by w_tom - 5/16/09 11:58 AM In reply to: ^ by jonnybones> I have a monster HTS2600MKII and it is awesome. ...
> Comcast will tell you not to run it through the power
> center, but ignore them - they are dumb.
Technically naive is the consumer that wants to be scammed. Who actually recommends those products from Belkin, Tripplite, etc when even the manufacturer does not claim to provide that protection. Monster Cables history is scam products that are obscenely overpriced. For example speaker cable that has 'polarity'. So they sell $6 of speaker wire for $60 to consumers who want to be scammed.
That Monster Cable protector is the same protector circuit found in a $7 grocery store protector. Notice, like the Monster Cable, it also does not claim to provide protection in numeric specs.
Comcast is also correct. That protector has no business on their cable. Surge protection is always about dumping surge energy harmlessly in earth. Surges that do not enter the building need not dissipate energy destructively inside any appliance. Surges seek earth. Cable connect a surge short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth before entering the building.
If permitted inside a building, the surge seeks earth ground destructively through household appliances. If you don’t provide the shorter path to earth, then it will dissipate energy destructively inside appliances to make that path.
Comcast does not need a protector to provide superior protection. Comcast cable connects directly to earth using a wire. That is what surge protection is. A connection to earth. Either by a wire (cable TV, satellite dish) or via a protector (AC electric, telephone). 'Whole house' protectors are so effective and so inexpensive that your telephone 'whole house' protector is installed for free. Did you know of that protector that has existed for most of the last 100 years?
Where surges must never cause damage (ie your local telephone exchange - the CO), money is not wasted on plug-in protectors. That CO will suffer about 100 surges during every thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days while they replace that computer? No damage because every wire in every cable is connected to earth via a 'whole house' protector.
Comcast cable already has a short connection to earth. Comcast correctly recommends no plug-in protector. Why spend up to $150 for a Monster Cable product that also sells for $7 in a grocery store?
AC electric is the most common source of surges. Again, surge protection is about connecting surge currents short to earth. Current that need not enter a home means no surge damage. We install one 'whole house' protector so that energy even from direct lightning strikes are harmlessly dissipated in earth - not inside the house.
Only more responsible companies provide a 'whole house' protector: Siemens, Intermatic, Square D, Leviton, Keison, and General Electric are but a few. A Cutler-Hammer 'whole house' protector sells in Lowes for $50. One protector to make all types of surges irrelevant. One protector to protect every household appliance. What protects dimmer switches, dishwasher, bathroom GFCIs, and furnace? Only the 'whole house' protector. What most needs protection during a surge? Smoke detectors. Where does Monster Cable discuss any of this? No wonder Comcast accurately suggests no Monster Cable protector.
Monster Cable is only recommended by those without even basic electrical knowledge. What will the TV salesman spend most on selling? The Monster Cable protector. Highest profits are in that protector; not in the TV. Ask for numeric protector (written) specs that list each type of surge and protection from that surge. Salesman cannot provide what does not exist.
Moving on. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Proper earthing means your breaker box must be upgraded to meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical Code. That means an earthing electrode just outside the box. To exceed code requirements, that wire must be short (ie 'less than 10 feet'), no sharp bends, no splices, a single point ground also used by the free telco protector and Comcast cable, ground wire separated from all other wires, wire not inside metallic conduit, etc. Wall receptacle safety ground obviously cannot provide earthing - violates almost every requirement for good earthing. Belkin, APC, and Monster Cable, etc cannot discuss earthing – do not earth surges.
One 'whole house' protector means earthing surges to protect everything. Means a direct lightning strike will not even harm that protector. An effective 'whole house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance. Why would anyone recommend $150 for a Monster Cable protector when its manufacturer does not even claim to provide that protection. An informed jonnybones would have read and posted those spec numbers. Comcast accurately recommends not using that obscenely overpriced product from APC, Tripplite, or Monster Cable.
Why do lightning strikes routinely hit munitions dumps without explosions? They too use 'whole house' protectors and even better earthing. What provided protection? Not a protector. To increase surge protection, we upgrade and expand the earthing system. We meet and exceed post 1990 code requirements.
A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Those who would promote the Monster Cable scam - where does Monster mention earthing? No earth ground means no effective protection. Monster Cable does not even make protection claims in numeric specs. Instead, they get salesmen and other technically naïve to recommend their product. Instead, many believe it is better only because it costs $150; not $7.
-
by jonnybones - 5/18/09 8:26 PM In reply to: Re: ^ by w_tomNow what would be TRULY naive would be to assertively correct someone when you yourself obviously have done no research of your own, or have personal experience to back up what you claim. I would hope nobody would ever do that though.
Just because...
by Pepe7 - 5/19/09 9:57 AM In reply to: - by jonnybones...you drank the 'Monster Kool-Aid' and overspent doesn't mean it's the correct approach. Please comment on the specific technical points of the previous poster that you feel are incorrect. (For the record, he's spot on!).
-Pedro
For the most part right....
by WildClay - 5/19/09 3:59 PM In reply to: Re: ^ by w_tomJust a couple of things to point out, surges or all electricity in any form always takes the path of least resistance to ground, which is not aways the shortest path.
That out of the way, The protection my system offers to the cable is not on the shield, the part Comcast and all other cable provider make sure is grounded, it also protect the signal line, this is the part the cable compainies hate since there is a small loss in the connectors and components that deal with this and if they have a marginal signal to start with they have to add an amp, of course the consummer can also add their own amp as I did, but Cable company amp tended to over drive the signal the one I have has and AGC (Automatic Gain Control) that makes sure the output is aways at the optimum level.
Ground or Earth in any home up to electrical code is going to provide sufficient ground to get the job done, it it can't take lightening voltage to ground, then there is no chance it would take 120 or 220 VAC to ground and would be dangerous.
I would also dispute that a 7 buck surge protector is the same protection as a 50 buck one, but would agree that a 300 buck one that is not doing a lot more than surge protection would be a waste.
I agree that the monster series of everything is over-priced, the only place it might make some difference over the cheapest possiible is in an HDMI cable, but I douby it has much over a 30 buck one either. The one I find the funniest is the optical cables, pure digitial, eithere the 1's and 0's make or they don't, but I digress...
I think it is well worth protecting all lines that come from outside, that include cable, phone, and power, perhaps your ethernet cable also as high voltage from something like lightening has a very slim chance to get through your cable box modem before it fries it.
Surge Protection, Generally a good idea
by WildClay - 5/16/09 7:07 PM In reply to: Surge Protector for Home Theater by suzycat1While I know my comments may disagree with some posts on here, so be it, but what you are really looking for is in non-UPS surge protector is protection from all potential sources where a surge can come in, this will typically be on your power lines and more often than not from something in your own home, like when your AC compressor cuts off, generally when it comes on you get a sag and a general surge protector does nothing to protect from sags, although most modern components have switching power supplies that are sort of immunue from sags, except in extreme cases.
Now what comes in on wire from the outside: Well you power, but also your Cable, and if you are hooked to a phone line, that also.
If lightening hits your cable, you will have a fried TV if you have not run the cable through a surge protector that has the right ratings on to protect from lightening, same for electrical feeds and phone lines.
I will agree that there are some grossly overpriced fancy "junk" on the market, one thing to look for unless you really know your electrical specs, is how much they will refund you if your stuff gets damaged using their device, if it is 0 then you really no real protection from a moneny perspective. APC for one, has on most of their equipment, and insurance value, for exmaple my UPS covers up to 15,000 in damaged equipment down stream.
Cable and other providors will often say don't use these, but they are not looking out for you, they are looking out for them. Adding any connection to say a cable means you get some signal loss at the connector and if it is not properly impedance matched you can lose a lot of power and then they have to put an amp in to get you back to a proper signal level. They may whine a little, but they will do it, my cable, by Comcast goes through an APC HT UPS/Surge/Sag protector. My signal strength was marginal and this was enough to drop it below their spec, I complained that I have $10,000 bucks of electonics on their wire and have a right to protect it, they put in an amp and life is good.
Since my APC is a UPS unlike a plain surge protector, it covers sagg (drop in power) as well we frequency out of range (60Hz), and votlate spikes.
I would suggest that you use a surge protector even if it is a cheaper one, might look in to 50-60 buck range, the next jump is in the 300+ buck range and now you are talking power contditioning and/or UPS, this is pretty much a nice to have in a home theater setting not a requirement and usually not worth the money, on your computer a good UPS is well worht it to me, but that is me.
Chances are even the best units will not protect your geat from a direct lightening strke to your electrical wires or cable feed, this is where the insurance comes in or get third party insurance like from Square Trade.
One last note, if you live in an area with higher than average electrical noise, then it is worth the bucks to get a good unti, generally a UPS so you are isolated from your external mains, other then that a medium priced surge protector for your electrical and cable is a good idea.
I live in a high lightening prone area with most overhead wires, I have had one APC die for my system and APC replaced it for free, and it did its job, it was fried but nothing in my HT was damaged.
If you live in a place where everything is underground, then you have a lot less risk from external spikes, most will be from, in your own house or that of a neighbor.
With a little googling around and using reliable sources like CNET, power companies, Consumer Reports, etc you can learn all you need to know to p[ick the right product for your level of comfort.
BTW -- All of the ones that claim using their protectors will improve your picture and/or sound are usually sort of lying, to 100% lie, but in general, it is only true if you live in a place with really noisy power.
Consider the source
by mjd420nova - 5/17/09 9:27 AM In reply to: Surge Protector for Home Theater by suzycat1The major concern for protecting your home and the electronic devices you have would be to determine the sources of the surges that will destroy your precious gear. The first and foremost event would be a lightning strike. This can happen on a cable line, phone line or power line. These are three sources that can be protected by purchase of the proper surge protector that will protect the power line and has RJ-45 (phone line) and RG-59 (cable coax) connectors to provide protection there too. The most important part of any surge protectors is to be sure you have them plugged into a three prong grounded outlet as this will be the path through which any surges will be directed. One other note is that after any surge event, the protectors should be replaced. This is because they are primarily a sacrificial device, that is they will provide the protection within the parameters of their specifications but are usually destroyed by the event and will not provide any more protection after an event.
Other than obviously critical self sacrificing protection,
by NM_Bill - 5/20/09 7:25 AM In reply to: Consider the source by mjd420novaline conditioning is always a lightning rod issue here. I don't dispute any facts about electricity, but through personal experience I do believe my choice to use a line conditioner was good. A perfectly decent surge protector was introducing artifacts on my screen. So don't use a surge protector which is not specifically labeled for A/V use. That may be a few bucks more but need not be more than needed as basic protection.
I consider my line conditioner of value to me. It has relatively huge capacitors inside for a reason. Seven buck surge protectors are not equal. And, yes it is fine with me that most folks do not see any practical need for line conditioning. I realize high end audio has always been promoted with a bunch of voodoo science.
As the topic has wandered, yes if building new construction there are well known standards & procedures to install grounding for much better than typical.
Consider the source
by w_tom - 5/22/09 8:05 PM In reply to: Consider the source by mjd420nova> The most important part of any surge protectors is to be
> sure you have them plugged into a three prong grounded
> outlet as this will be the path through which any surges
> will be directed. One other note is that after any surge
> event, the protectors should be replaced. This is because
> they are primarily a sacrificial device, that is they will
> provide the protection within the parameters of their
> specifications but are usually destroyed by the event and
> will not provide any more protection after an event.
Show me even one MOV datasheet that says 'sacrificial operation' is acceptable? MOV manufacturers are blunt about this. A protector must remain functional after any surge. But a protector that fails gets the naive to recommend it.
Unlike so many others, this poster even designed protectors and then suffered direct lightning strikes without damage.
A three prong grounded outlet does not earth the protector. A previous post show why how many times? Earth ground must be short (ie 'less than 10 feet'). Separated from non-earthing wires. No sharp bends. No splices. How many requirements are violated by a wall receptacle safety ground? Every one. Every one says the three prong outlet does not do what the post has claimed - but is the half truth used to promote plug-in protectors.
Protectors are not sacrificial devices. One who designs this stuff said why a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Explains why effective surge protection means nobody knows the surge existed. But when a grossly undersized and ineffective $7 protector (or the same circuit found in a $150 Monster Cable protector) fails during protection, the naive even promoted that protector here.
Any surge protector destroyed by a surge did not provide any protection. But a $7 protector or the same circuit in that Monster Cable $150 protector are how many hundred joules to stop and absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Protectors damaged by a surge provide no protection - but get the technically naive to recommend it.
What must that power strip protector do? Somehow it will stop what three miles of sky could not. Somehow those few hundred joules will absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules. Just a few damning facts. A designer learns what provides protection. A short connection to earth. No earth ground means no effective protection.
A protector that is a sacrificial device is even a fire hazard. Another warning about those who promote protectors that do not even claim to provide protection.
Appliances contain protection that makes most surges irrelevant. An effective protector further diminishes those surges. It also earths the typically destructive surges before that surge can enter a building. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
The most important part of a protector is how short it connects to protection.
*
by jonnybones - 5/22/09 9:37 PM In reply to: Consider the source by w_tom"Protectors damaged by a surge provide no protection"
So your seemingly-confident statement holds true for surge protectors that if overloaded past their "rating", blow their internal workings AND by doing so disconnect all the outlets from the main plug-in?
Or am I just being naive...
I don't believe anyone is going to claim to protect me from
by NM_Bill - 5/23/09 7:04 AM In reply to: Consider the source by w_toma full fledged lightning surge. And yes, despite undisputable knowledge we don't deny, cheap $20 surge protectors are meant to be sacrificial & thus are regarded as cost effective protection.
Some of us don't have horrid electrical service by reputation yet have seen line conditioning remove artifacts as visual proof. So at least some line conditioning is a legitimate separate issue.
And again, yes, If I were doing new construction I would have the house grounding done to an industry wide known level of greater protection. This is referring to the short yet effective ground to earth our friend is harping about.
Anyone who is so determined to trust their personal protection to a $7 device as found even in supermarkets is welcome to. I feel a little more investment in protection is logical.
Re: I don't believe anyone is going to claim...
by w_tom - 5/25/09 8:51 AM In reply to: I don't believe anyone is going to claim to protect me from by NM_Bill> ... cheap $20 surge protectors are meant to be sacrificial & thus
> are regarded as cost effective protection.
A $7 protector is the same circuit found in $25 and $150 plug-in protectors. If cost effective, then a $7 protector is the better solution. It does the same thing. It makes same protection claims in manufacturer specs. It does same for less money.
Often heard is "my surge protector sacrificed itself to save my computer". Reality - a surge too small to overwhelm protection already inside appliances could easily destroy that grossly undersized protector. Myth of 'sacrificial protection' is routine and easy when observation creates facts. 'Observation only' is also called junk science. Meanwhile, any protector that sacrifices itself provides ineffective protection.
What else does a grossly undersized protector do? From Norma on 27 Dec 2008 in alt.fiftyplus entitled "The Power Outage" also describes strip protector danger - because it is woefully undersized:
> Today, the cable company came to replace a wire. Well the cable
> man pulled a wire and somehow yanked loose their "ground" wire.
> The granddaughter on the computer yelled and ran because sparks
> and smoke were coming from the power surge strip.
That is protection? A grossly undersized protector is also a fire threat. See 'scary pictures' of protectors that are "sacrificial" including a Fire Marshal explaining why that fire threat exists:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge%20Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm
http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339
Effective protection means earthing one 'whole house' protector so that even direct lightning strikes cause no damage - even to the protector. Protection that costs about $1 per protected appliance. Why would anyone waste twenty times more money for a sacrificial protector that does not even claim to provide that protection? That protector gets recommended on observation - without 'always required' technical knowledge. Also called junk science.
Spend tens of times less money to earth even direct lightning strikes without damage. But that means the always essential short connection to earth ground.
You get what you pay for...
by WildClay - 5/25/09 10:14 AM In reply to: Re: I don't believe anyone is going to claim... by w_tomI would agree that a cheap under-rated protector does not offer much protection at all, if any, and in dealing with very high energy event like a lightening strike or mishaps like a ground wire getting cut or disconnection then all bets are off.
The guy that owned this house before me was an electrician so this is the first house I have ever had that has a "whole" house protector at the breaker panel on both phases, but I stull use APC UPS/Surge protectors on my computer and HT. I sometimes wonder if it would have protected the only thing I had damaged when a hogh tension wire broke and dropped onto a local feed, that was in another house, that fried the control panel on my dishwasher, that was not even on at the time but that was the only think it damaged in my house, my HR and Computer APC units both tripped and for whatever reason things like clock radio's, my fridge, microwave, and wall warts all survived it.
It was also odd I thought that it only blew out most of my breakers but not all, many of my neighbors were not so lucky, they lost TV's computers, other appliances, and even some phones that used wall warts for power.
I think the real point of this discussion should not or was not what is the worse case situation and how to protect from it, but is it worth it to use surge protectors and if so, cheap one, medium priced ones, and high end ones (including those that are high end only on cost but not on added protection, like some products out there.
I doubt most will take the time to do the homework needed to understand the specs on this kind of gear, this is why I suggest to friends to by protectors from companies that make this kind of equipment for commercial applications, like APC and others, and stay away from the folks that make extension cords and over-priced AV cables...
When is comes to this stuff, nothing is 100%, even in out data centers we have had electrical systems damaged by lightening, never made it to the computers or network gear but it sure fried a power conditioner or two.
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