Storage: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read
- 2/13/09 2:44 PM
Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read
by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 2/13/09 2:44 PM
What do you think is the greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read?
-- Mishandling by user, for example scratches or scuffs. (Please explain.)
-- Quality of the media. (Please explain.)
-- Environment factors, including sun, dust, moisture, etc. (Please explain.)
-- User error, e.g. data was never properly recorded on the disc in the first place. (Please explain.)
-- The hardware itself failing. (Please explain.)
-- Other. (What is it?)
DVD incapatibility with Reader
by renauss - 2/13/09 5:23 PM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Some readers(players) will accept DVD-R(RW) discs only whilst others may accept both DVD + or - R(RW) discs. Toshiba players generally accept the DVD dash version whereas a Sony will accept both disc versions. Russ
Problem DVDs are (1) format (2) reader (3) handling
by SinbadSailor - 2/13/09 5:53 PM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Have Sony VRD-MC5 DVD recorder & Dimex video Stabilizer in-line to eliminate "cannot record" messages. I record to DVD-R,+R, -RW and +RW. Our Sony player hates -RW but loves +RW while another is just the reverse. Am very careful w/ the disc but they still get smudged & scratched (probably by the devil, herself). Because I have an older VCR recorder/player in line, I can copy almost anything to one of the DVD formats but am continually surprised by occasional discs that just will not read. My solution is to re-copy them, sometimes to a non-rewritable DVD, which usually assures me they will work. I also download music and write to music CDs in my HP laptop. Sometimes they don't read in that drive but almost always will read in any old CD player. I use CD-R as my standard for music. I also record concerts, then write the videos as separate DVD files using "Corel DVD copy 6" to a DVD-R which I can easily use on my laptop or DVD player on my sailboat. HooHah!
You just gotta work with all the "stuff" they make and try to make 'em work together. Life was easier when we only had the VCR to worry about!
Biggest Offender - Sticky CD Labels
by cac13 - 2/13/09 6:24 PM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Biggest problem I have had is using sticky labels placed on CDs & DVDs rather than using a felt tip pen for hand writing info. I create CD compilation for in car use and back up my digital photos and zip other files to save space.
This practise has corrupted a number of CDs. I have researched this & it appears that the labels are not to be used for archival due to acidity of paper and glue affecting the reflective coating.
When bad, music is reproduced with a crackly nature, certainly not the quality it should be. Zip files are affected most as any corruption to the file and they will not open.
I have now copied all of my labelled CDs with photos onto a USB backup hard disk and have installed an additional hard drive into my PC for data & photos only.
BURNED CDS DVDS
by jefflarson - 2/13/09 7:05 PM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
YES THERE IS A SHELF LIFE
I PLACED A BURNED CD IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT AND TESTED IT EACH DAY
IN TWO WEEKS IT WAS UNREADABLE
IF YOU ARE GOING TO BACKUP IMPORTANT DATA
OR WANT A CD THAT DONT SKIP IN THE CD PLAYER IN YOUR CAR
WHILE DRIVING AROUND
USE THE SLOWEST BURNING SPEED ON YOUR BURNER
THE BURNED AREAS OF THE CD\DVD ARE EXPOSED TO THE LASER LIGHT LONGER
AND THIS INCREASES THE CONTRAST BETWEEN BURNED AND NOT BURNED AREAS
MAKING THEM EASYER TO READ BY CD PLAYER AND LESS APPT TO FADING
AND STORE IN DRY ... DARK PLACE
Most seem to be of at least fair quality
by dogfaceboy1955 - 2/14/09 5:25 PM In reply to: BURNED CDS DVDS by jefflarsonI have had CDs in my car that can actually go from -40 c. through the night to +40 in the heat of the car, and work when I get in the car or out of it at various temps. I use some of the CDs in the house not that I bought when CDs first became available (pre recorded) but I also use some that are recorded in a computer. I have also found that while a CD might not work in one CD player/burner while it works quite well in a better quality CD player/burner. I try to get the best CDs and DVDs possible but that doesn't always happen. I also have some 3 1/2 disks that were recorded in the early 80s at home and still work quite well.
CD/DVD life
by Starman35 - 2/13/09 7:54 PM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I never had a problem reading old DVD/CD media except from a few cheap CD's whose dye layer degenerated with time. The solution was to always use quality media, never, ever expose them to direct sunlight, and otherwise handle them only from the hub and edges. I keep copied CD's in my car, & have done so for > 5 years exposed to the Florida heat & humidity without problems, except as before mentioned. I always keep the originals in a dark drawer in air conditioned space, and they are as good as the day I first purchased them. I also always used a Mac with OS-9 - OS-X 10.4 for my burning, but I do not think that is relevant.
FLORIDA HEAT
by jefflarson - 2/13/09 11:36 PM In reply to: CD/DVD life by Starman35i am wondering did you have the media in direct sunlite ?
cd shelf-life
by tomlake - 2/15/09 10:08 PM In reply to: CD/DVD life by Starman35I AM NOT A PLASTICS ENGINEER, notice my use of the words might and /or may.
We often think it is the scratches on the side we put down in the CD player, when actually it is the normally printed side that gets scratched that destroys the data. the under side of the printed professionally recorded CD has the data on it. the laser beam goes through the thickness of the plastic to obtain the data stamped or molded at least that has been my experience, and not only being in direct sunlight , but the Latent heat that that is in the car where it may be "stored' THE PLASTIC MAY HAVE A MEMORY OF ITS ORIGINAL FORM,however the scratches on the"down" side of a CD/DVD may distort the laser beam giving the appearance the data was "lost"( where "polishing out" the scratches[ in a straight line from the center out, not little circles]. may restore a clear image to the laser beam). [ PERFECTLY FLAT WITH NO DATA "BURNED" INTO IT." THE BURNED DATA MAY "FLOW" ITSELF FLAT. TO A NO DATA CONDITION. FROM BEFORE IT WAS "STAMPED OR BURNED" LIKE THE OLD VINYL RECORDS. THEY WOULD "WARP" WHEN EXPOSED TO EXCESSIVE HEAT NOT JUST SUNLIGHT. AND MAY BECOME UNPLAYABLE. SOME TIMES THAT WARP MIGHT BE FIXED WITH MORE MILD HEAT WITH A SUfFICIENT FLAT WEIGHT OR pressure ON IT. As I said I am not a "plastics Engineer" I would not leave my CD s in the car
Doesn't matter why they go bad
by Dango517 - 2/13/09 11:57 PM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
it happens often enough these should be avoided. These are unreliable, slow to make and take up storage space. They also add heat to the system when being made. Use USBs and some other form of backing up method when possible. Save that CD/DVD drive for prerecorded media you can return.
Failed CD's
by john3347 - 2/14/09 9:26 AM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
When I buy a new piece of software, before I even install the software I make a copy of it. The original gets put away in a drawer and I use the copy. Some of these copies (music, etc.) become "mobile" copies and get subjected to temperature and humidity extremes common in a closed automobile and, on occasion, to bright sunlight through auto and home windows. I do handle these CDs as carefully as practical and normally do not get them scratched up. Under these conditions, I have had CDs fail in significantly less than 5 years. When a CD becomes unreadable, I simply pull out the original and make another copy. I also have copies of CDs that were kept in a less demanding environment that I copied sometime in the mid to late '90's (10 years ago) that are still readable. Thus, I feel that environment and handling are the biggest factors the life of a computer generated CD. If I have created a CD of my own (family photos, income tax records, etc.), I date the CD and make a new copy every 3 years and discard the old copy.
p.s. There has been no obvious physical deterioration in any of these failed CDs
Quality
by one_unfettered_mind - 2/14/09 12:37 PM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
If you buy cheap then you WILL lose out. Saveing a buck is not worth the risk if what you save is important. Get the best you can afford and pray it lasts. Store it properly. I have 78's that are good still, but can't be played anymore. Well thats my pennys worth.
"If you are still above ground! Then it's a good day"
Rob Cosby
the greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read
by antiquefart - 2/15/09 3:08 AM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
All of the suggested causes, and more, including incompatibility, and portable players.
More than 20 years ago I started backing up an extensive collection of music onto CD, from LPs, cassettes, and commercial CDs. Long before I ever got a computer with a CD drive I was using a Denon stereo component with both optical and analog input capability, using almost exclusively Memorex 700 MB Music (as opposed to Data) CD-R media. Before I switched to Memorex I was getting a large number of coasters--rejected by the Denon with a failed initialization--with a couple of other brands that I no longer recall, but got very few rejects with Memorex; more recently I've also had good luck with TDK CD-R/Music CDs. Since the Denon was writing from input in real time, this was at 1x. A very few discs would not finalize, but all that did would then play properly on a Luxman stereo player--and still do, after ~20 years of being stored vertically on bookshelves in jewel cases. However, I discovered that many of these same CDs would skip, hang, or refuse to load on several other players, primarily on cheap self-contained portables. They do play properly with WMP on an internal Lite-On, an internal Optiarc, and an external HP, as well as on a $35 Toshiba desktop DVD player hooked up to a TV.
Much more recently I've been backing up an extensive collection of movie DVDs, using either the Optiarc or HP; two different Lite-On players gave me a huge percentage of coasters. I started with Memorex 4.7 +R, but quickly switched to Verbatim +R, which even on the poor quality Lite-On drives made far fewer coasters or other problems. For a while I was using LG Software 1Click DVD Copy, but eventually switched to Elaborate Bytes CloneDVD for reading (and to compress as necessary), and VSO CopyToDVD to write, since these give the user much better control. (I have found, though, that 1Click will try reading through a bad scratch or printing error much more aggressively than CloneDVD. And what, you may ask, is a "printing error"? It's where you can try 3 or 4 different copies of a commercially pressed DVD, and each copy skips or hangs at the same place--I've run across three like this so far.)
For a while I would put some larger (in GBs) movies onto 8.5 GB DL discs, but have since given it up since the playback failure rate is so high, and unpredictable from one player to another. Instead I've had much better results compressing down to as much as ~57% if necessary, with no noticeable loss of AV quality played on a computer or standard player and TV (not HD). However, menus never like to compress well, so I usually omit them and simply transfer any wanted extras to directly follow the feature, or put them on a separate disc. I always remove any unwanted soundtracks, which can take up a lot of disc space.
All three of my DVD drives--Lite-On, Optiarc, and HP--are region-free, and will play the few Region 2s and 4s that I have. I never did anything special to them, but it may be just my AnyDVD read program that is unlocking them. On the other hand, my external HP chokes and dies on any RW media, and its power cord has to be unplugged before it can be made to eject.
Concerning scratches, I have no information on home-burned discs, since none of mine are scratched or physically damaged. With original commercial CDs or DVDs that I've rented or borrowed from a public library, fingerprints and miscellaneous goop will wash off with water or Windex, and a good drive or player will ignore most light scratches in random directions. Most of the more severe scratches that you find on ill-used discs can be made readable by rubbing, *always* back and forth in a center-to-edge direction, with some Brasso or other very finely abrasive cleaner, on a clean soft cotton rag; you can safely rub quite firmly on stubborn scratches if you're sure to always rub radially. But even a very light scratch can permanently ruin a disc if it follows the direction of play, because it will not only cut across several bits of data but also wipe out the error correction bits needed to reconstruct any bad or missing pits. Occasionally this type of scratch will just be an unfortunate fluke, but it's easy to see that most such scratches are caused by the laser housing hitting the disc surface while it is spinning--in other words, on a player that has been jiggled or bumped, which will almost always be a portable or vehicular player.
For storage I keep all of my DVDs filed vertically on shelves in closed cases with fabric-backed sleeves from Fellowes or Case Logic, at room temperature with low humidity and no bright or direct light or sun exposure; I never leave or use any discs in a car. I don't have (or want) LightScribe, and certainly *never* apply any sort of label onto a disc; instead I simply write any needed information directly onto the label side with a Sharpie fine point permanent marker. Very rarely I've needed to erase something written, and so far have experienced no damage to a disc by rubbing it out with isopropanol on a Q-tip; this might eventually turn out to have been unwise, however. As far as I'm aware, none of my CDs or DVDs have yet degraded, either with layer separation, disc rot, or dye fading.
I do have a question relating to commercially pressed DVDs, if anyone has ever noticed the phenomenon. Occasionally on old and heavily-used DVDs the play surface will have a strange patterning of small circles about the same size as the center hole, arranged in more-or-less a circle around the hole, roughly a hole's diameter width out from the edge of the hole. Usually there may be at most 4 or 5 of these circles, seemingly randomly placed within this area. The circles consist of a scattering of dark dots--they're never completely or even mostly filled in--and the outside edges of the circles may be indistinct or sometimes look like two slightly offset circles. Usually they're very faint, but sometimes darker and more distinct. It's nothing on the surface, which is still smooth, and they've never affected playback. They don't seem to be related to any damage to the edge of the hole, or to any other sort of damage or defect. What might this be?
Nothing lasts forever
by ftrice - 2/15/09 6:13 AM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The actual recording surface that we are recording to is a chemical compound applied very thin to a plastic disc. Think of it as paint. This "paint" begins to deteriorate soon after it has been cured. The rate of deterioration will vary depending on the conditions to which it is exposed such as moisture, temperature, sunlite etc. but even if it were to be kept in a hermeticly sealed vault it would still deteriorate. This "paint" will shrink and crack at a rate that is different than that of the disc. The life expectancy of these discs may be five years, or it may not. Nothing survives the test of time. The only sure way to protect your data is to re-record it onto a new media while it will still play. This will also protect you from obsolence, the second greatest danger to your data. You would be hard pressed to find a machine to play a 5 1/4 floppy today. Try to find a machine that will play a 78rpm vinal disc today. They haven't made one in over 50years. you will have to shop in the antique shops.
YEP _ that's why they fail :-))
by Irelands child - 2/16/09 7:23 AM In reply to: Poll: Greatest contributor to a burned CD/DVD failing to read by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
There should have been an all of the above poll answer though the first three IMHO are the leading cause of CD-R failures. I'm a tight wad so I generally have copies of CD's that I keep in my truck and leave the originals in the house to use in the Bose or whatever else I have that plays CDs. The cheap media in the truck I had tried is starting to fail after 2-3 years and have needed recopying. The good stuff, i.e. Taiyo-Yuden, Ritek, Fuji, Verbatim, Maxell, etc just keep chuggin' along. But with that said, some of the cheap CDs are also still fine, though they are kept in sleeves and in the console when not being played
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