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Computer newbies: Are deleted files really deleted?
Are deleted files really deleted?
by Al3d - 5/25/08 7:37 PMOk here's the thing, I downloaded PC World Restoration and I scanned one of my hard drives, it gave me thousands of file that date back to a year ago or so, I easily brought one back in perfect condition and I bet I can do the same to the others, now there are roughly 50000 files and they have to be somewhere alive in my hard drive of course, so my questions are:
How can I delete them? Shouldn't they be!!!
How much space in my hard drive these files take?
Does this happen to everyone?
What the hell!!!! There's no point in deleting files then
Thanks a lot in advance
Data and recovery
by Porch-a-Geese - 5/25/08 11:26 PM In reply to: Are deleted files really deleted? by Al3dThe data is overwritten by a set of zeros, ones, or ones and zeros in a combination. A portion of a disk can have information on it. yes. This happens to everyone. There is a point of deleting files. That is to reuse the drive as many times as possible. If you have 10,000 people using a computer everyday, only five to ten of them are going to be undeleting information.
Re: file deletion
by Kees Bakker
- 5/26/08 1:18 AM
In reply to: Are deleted files really deleted? by Al3d
If you delete a file (either directly or via the recycle bin) it's marked as deleted and the space it occupies is marked as 'reusable'. But there's no way to force Windows to reuse it immediately or whenever. And as long as the space isn't reused for another file, the bits and bytes are there and the information can be recovered. There's nothing wrong with that, that's by design, and that's how it works, wheter you like it or not. With everyone.
These 'remnants' of files don't take space. It's available space.
If, for some reason, you would like to make restoration impossible, a simple delete doesn't work. You'll need a program then that "erases" the file in stead of deleting it. Windows Explorer and the command prompt don't and will never do. A Explorer-like program called Powerdesk, for example, has such an option. It's a shareware program, but a good search might still find a somewhat limited free version. I donwloaded mine 2 years ago, and I never checked if it's still being offered.
But you might find other ones also. It's fairly well imaginable somebody wrote a shell extension that puts "erase file" in your right click context menu in standard Windows. I just don't know one, because generally I don't mind about old info.
Kees
Kees
Thank you
by Al3d - 5/26/08 8:19 AM In reply to: Re: file deletion by Kees Bakker
Thanks a lot guys, I get it now
"eraser" is freeware
by warpete - 6/23/08 10:46 PM In reply to: Re: file deletion by Kees Bakker
There's BC Wipe, Eraser and tons of others to "wipe" or "erase" a file. Most can be configured to perform from 1 to 32 passes over the file you are erasing. I believe the Government "Standard" is 7 passes. Instead of "deleting", which really only removes the reference to the file so Windows can mark it as "free space", wiping (or erasing) overwrites the file many times. There will still be information in that HDD space, but most recovery programs will fail to receover any information. I said "most" recovery programs. Even if you use a program to completely write "Zero's" to your HDD, an extremely clever forensic HDD specialist can do wonders with recovering data. That being said, if you don't want anyone recovering data from your HDD---BURN IT!! Don't even use a powerful magnet, just give it a proper cremation.
I completly agree.
by Mendieta - 6/23/08 11:39 PM In reply to: Re: file deletion by Kees Bakker
Microsoft OSes do that since first versions of MS-DOS, they DO NOT erase files, they just mark the space ocupied by the erased file as available.
On another OSes like Unix or Unix clones (Linux, BSD, etc.), when you delete a file it is erased from disk, this can be an advantage & a disadvantage, it depends on many factors, if you accidentally erase a file in a MS OS, you can recover it using some tools, if you want your files to be really deleted you "must" use another tool...
Linux, Unix, BSD files are deleted similarly to MS, ...
by Edward ODaniel - 6/24/08 9:57 AM In reply to: I completly agree. by Mendietathey remain on the storage media but are disassociated from the index.
Try reading the grep manual for more complete info but since long before Linux deleted files were recovered thusly -
grep -a -B[size before] -A[size after] 'text' /dev/[your_partition]
Additionally, just as there are third party file undeletion utilities for Windows there are several available for Unix, Linux, BSD, solaris, etc.
Simple Answer... Leave Them Deleted Unless..
by Grif Thomas - 5/26/08 8:19 AM
In reply to: Are deleted files really deleted? by Al3d
...you've accidentally deleted an important file.. Programs such as "PC World Restoration" are designed to recover files that you didn't want removed.. For most, it's not a necessary program unless you've done something you shouldn't have.
As described by the others above:
1. Delete files don't take up space.. but...they can be recovered from the drive with special programs until they are overwritten enough that the data is no longer recoverable.
2. Yes, this is the same for everyone's computer.
3. If you really want files removed from the hard drive so they can no longer be recovered, (for things like important national security data, etc.) physically remove the hard drive, destroy it, and put in a new one. Or there are disc wiping programs which over-write the data to Department of Defense specs so it's next to impossible for the normal individual to recover data...
But other than that, for normal operations on your computer, deleting files does what you want it to do. Removes the file, releases the space for you to use, and it no longer shows up in your file structure.
Hope this helps.
Grif
Viruses
by Elton Hoxie - 6/10/08 7:26 AM In reply to: Simple Answer... Leave Them Deleted Unless.. by Grif Thomas
If this is true then viruses and things of that sort are still on the computer, are they not?
No...Not Really..
by Grif Thomas - 6/10/08 8:15 AM
In reply to: Viruses by Elton Hoxie
Although technically correct that all deleted files have a potential for being recovered with special recovery software, once they are deleted fully from the hard drive, viruses/spyware/trojans, etc. are no longer functional and can not infect your computer. We're talking about theoretical issues here because very few individuals ever use recovery software.. As stated previously, once deleted, those files are gone unless extraordinary measures are taken to retrieve them. It's the same for any file we've discussed in this thread..
Of course, in a few instances, there are viruses that can remain in memory even after a hard drive is wiped but that's an entirely different issue since they haven't really been deleted fully AND it's not a typical file on the hard drive.
Hope this helps.
Grif
? answered
by Elton Hoxie - 6/10/08 8:48 AM In reply to: No...Not Really.. by Grif Thomas
Thank You! Your answer was right on the money.
One more quick suggestion
by darkzenlord - 6/10/08 11:37 AM In reply to: ? answered by Elton HoxieIt is true that deletion only marks the data for overwriting. My antivirus (McAffee) has a "super erase" method. It allows me to erase files and then make up to 10 passes to really get rid of them. I believe they call it "shredder". Also I know best buy and stores of the like sell software that can permanetly delete files of your choosing. You can find them next to the Identity protection softwares. They normally come bundled with other protection softwares and cleaners, so you will have to decide what you really need.
Thanks
by Elton Hoxie - 6/10/08 11:49 AM In reply to: One more quick suggestion by darkzenlordThank you darkzenlord.
Even Shredded Files Have a Potential For Recovery..
by Grif Thomas - 6/10/08 2:28 PM
In reply to: One more quick suggestion by darkzenlord
As has mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, overwriting (such as shredders and disc wipe utilities), makes deleted files "harder or next to impossible" to recover but when the "government" wants to find something, they usually have a tool that can do it.. Obviously, the Department of Defense standards are good enough for almost everyone.. Still, the only sure way of making a disc unrecoverable is to destroy it..
Hope this helps.
Grif
Ace Utilities
by Geert Janssens - 6/21/08 1:01 AM In reply to: Simple Answer... Leave Them Deleted Unless.. by Grif Thomas
Several years ago I bought Ace Utilities from Acelogix. It offers you the possibility to delete permanently the files you want to delelete.
So you can choose between : Pseudorandom (1pass)or US DoD 5220.22-M(8-306/E) 3 passes or Gutmann with 35 passes. In the last case the files are really deleted. You can find it on 'http://www.acelogix.com/' and try it for 1 month.
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