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Mac desktops: G4 and 4ML meet but don't talk
G4 and 4ML meet but don't talk
by jennywren1420 - 9/9/08 4:06 PMThe cast of characters: handsome Mac G4 (Sawtooth) running OS 10.4.11 and slightly homely but talented, engaging HP 4ML printer.
All kidding aside, I had another idea about how to get around the fact that since I upgraded my Tiger software to 4.11 (from 4.7. then .9, then .10, I believe), I get a message that "the printer isn't responding" when I ask to print. All looks great until the last minute, by the way: the pages download, the little printer icon with the paper on it appears, and then the dread message. The printer worked fine before I upgraded to OS X, then for a while it wasn't recognized, but since then all was fine until recently, when I took on version 4.11.
I think that it was Bob Profitt who opined that maybe my problem lay in the fact that the printer's attached (by serial cable) to AsanteTalk, which allows me to attach the computer to it with an Ethernet cable. Models of Mac before mine apparently had a place to attach a serial cable, but this one doesn't. The printer works fine with my (failing) laptop, which is still using OS 9 and dialup. Having to transfer files from one computer to the other when I want to print, or imposing on my neighbor, is, in the first case, a bit of a pain, and in the second, an imposition I don't want to make often.
What it does have, though, is a USB connection. I was wondering whether I could, use a serial-to-USB adaptor to attach the the two machines with either the serial cable I have or a USB cable. (I think I have one of those, too.) That would bypass Ethernet altogether. You see, I have to use AsanteTalk because just as the Mac doesn't have a place to put the end of the serial cable, the printer doesn't have a place for USB.
First, is this possible? I know that such adaptors exist that have serial and USB. (I have one, though the serial end is male, and I need a female one.) I don't know, however, whether (1) it would not blow out the brains of one or both of the machines, former close friends, or (2) it wouldn't harm them but wouldn't work.
There's another reason that I'd love to bypass the Ethernet connection: As things stand currently with me, I get broadband as part of a very small network, and the way I get it is with an Ethernet adaptor. Although it uses USB, somehow, the built-in Ethernet seems sometimes to get into a tussle with it. Or maybe it's using the Ethernet to function, and the AsanteTalk part of the arrangement gets in the way. What do I know? All I know is that Bob may have been right about AsanteTalk being attached to the printer. If I could jettison the printer as part of the Ethernet hookup, I might be able to get all of these things to work sweetly together.
Right now, I've taken the printer out of the setup, including the serial cable, and have the Ethernet cable attached to AsanteTalk on one end and the G4 on the other. All seems to be well, except that of course, I can print only from the G3 PowerBook.
I don't even mind looking for the adaptor and trying things out, so long as I'm not likely to hurt anything by doing so. That is where I really could use advice. Also, would I be using a USB cable and just using the adaptor to connect it to the printer, or the serial cable (probably not, yes?) and attaching the adaptor to the G4 end? If you all are thoroughly confused by now, join the group. My head is swimming.
Thanks to anyone who can advise me. Much obliged!
Jenny
Hmm
by mrmacfixit
- 9/9/08 7:24 PM
In reply to: G4 and 4ML meet but don't talk by jennywren1420
this small network you are on.
You say you are using a USB adapter. What is that for? Is it a wireless adapter or an ethernet adapter?
If wireless, is AppleTalk turned on in the Network preferences for this adapter?
If the answer is yes, turn off AppleTalk there and turn it ON in the built-in ethernet section of Network preferences. It can only be on in one place at a time.
The printer is expecting to see AppleTalk, it's worth a try.
Of course, if that adapter is not a wireless one, what's it for?
If it is for Ethernet, I don't see why you would have to use two ethernet outputs from your G4 instead of using a switch. A switch would allow you to plug the G4 (Built-in Ethernet) and the AsanteTalk device into it and then add this broadband connection to it.
BroadBand, G4 and AsanteTalk device all connected to one switch.
How does that sound?
P
Not quite sure how to explain
by jennywren1420 - 9/10/08 1:29 AM In reply to: Hmm by mrmacfixit
Really, it's a network that a neighbor has set up and that she allows me to use. I don't know all the details. The device, a Belkin Wireless USB one, is kind of a wifi thing, substituting for an Airport card, and picks up other people's unencrypted broadband, but I don't need those other ones, because Lynne gave me the key to her network. (She has an editing business, and I do some of my work for her.)
I do know that AppleTalk can be on in only one place. I have tried activating AppleTalk on the built-in Ethernet and printing, but that doesn't work. Nor does the Internet work when I'm on "Built-in Ethernet," and when AppleTalk is off for the wifi device, that doesn't work, either. Sometimes, the Network Preference for Built-in Ethernet says that the cable's connected but the Ethernet has no IP address and can't connect to the Internet; sometimes, it says that my computer has its own IP address and may not be able to connect via Built-in Ethernet. Either way, it doesn't connect (with or without AppleTalk activated) to the Internet and doesn't allow me to print from my computer. I'll try again, though. Hope springs eternal, or something like that.
I have also tried printing with the built-in Ethernet (with AppleTalk active) chosen and the device removed and incapacitated. I suppose I could uninstall the software, too, if I can, but I'm not sure that would help. The whole mess started before I even got the device. Maybe the 4ML driver (I have the latest one) just doesn't work with that level of Tiger. Maybe some other part of the hookup doesn't work with 4.11. Maybe the printer has been bewitched or has come down with consumption. Who knows?
If I thought that the problem was using the wifi device, I could get my own broadband, but then I think I'd have to get more equipment to get back onto Lynne's network, and it certainly would be more expensive than what I have now. I'm not sure that I'd succeed even then. What do you think?
You seem to be implying that my idea of making the printer into a USB one with an adaptor and a cable is a no-go or could even harm my computer, if I tried it. Is that right? Granted, if I could just use the built-in Ethernet, with AppleTalk activated, that would be great, but I thought of that, and it doesn't work. Bob thought that AsanteTalk was the problem, so if that's the case, I'm still in trouble. It seems unlikely, though: I've had AsanteTalk as long as I've used this printer and computer in combination, and I never had a problem until now.
Oh, maybe I should just give up trying to make this printer and this computer sing their song. I'll think of something else. Too bad, though, I have a fair amount of toner still in the current cartridge and two unopened cartridges on the shelf. The printer still works well and suits me fine. Maybe the easiest thing to do (and certainly, the least expensive) is to do the little bits of printing I need to do with my laptop.
Thanks for the kind reply, though.
Jenny
That Device
by mrmacfixit - 9/10/08 7:26 AM
In reply to: Not quite sure how to explain by jennywren1420
I remember the wireless discussion and how we wondered why you didn't get the Apple Airport card for that G4. Guess that's another story.
The reason that Network Preferences reports that your G4 is connected but has not got an IP address, other than a self assigned one, is because it sees an ethernet connection from the AsanteTalk box.
AppleTalk is not a requirement for connection to the internet, whether by the Belkin Wireless USB device (not an ethernet adapter) or the Built-in Ethernet.
You "should" be able to connect to the Broadband network and the AT box without any problems at all.
I can't help wondering if the Belkin device needs something that the Apple Wireless does not.
I'll ponder some more on this and take a look for a USB to Serial converter. They certainly used to exist, back in the day,
P
Most kind!
by jennywren1420 - 9/11/08 7:14 AM In reply to: That Device by mrmacfixit
Dear P,
I waited too long to get the Airport card, so they are rare, but in addition, the Belkin device does not only what that vintage Airport card could do, but has every version up to .11g and MIMO, whatever that is. I thought it would work better than one with .11b alone. Maybe that was a mistake.
Don't know why, but I can't connect to the Internet with the built-in Ethernet, with or without AppleTalk, and there's no way to connect the Ethernet cable on the G4 without AsanteTalk. Yet when I was doing dialup and an earlier version of Tiger, everything was fine. I am interested to see whether I can uninstall the Belkin software and then try printing something, first, just any document, and then (with dialup) something from my email. If I can do that, 4.11 is not the culprit, and probably, the Belkin (software and/or hardware) is; if not, I'm not sure where to take it from here. AsanteTalk should not be a problem (it wasn't before), but wherever the problem does lie, if I want to keep using my printer, I'll have to decide what to do next. Belkin says that they have no idea of why there should be a problem and can't offer suggestions; I've followed the directions that Asante gives for setting up a hookup, but since my computer already recognizes my printer, that doesn't help, either.
I looked at Staples and Best Buy here, yesterday. They do have serial-to-USB cables (though short ones only), but the serial end is oblong, not round like my cable. And what I thought was an appropriate adaptor is, on second glance, the wrong one and is what I'd need if I wanted to link a non-USB keyboard to a USB Mac, or vice-versa. Counting my blessings that I don't have that problem!
Thanks for giving this more thought. When I can try the experiment without any Belkin stuff, I'll do so. I'd like to find out which element is causing the problem, and the obvious culprits are something Belkin or the more up-to-date Tiger version. I'll let you know what happens.
Meanwhile, you don't need to bother looking for an adaptor for me. I take it that using one (and a USB cable?) might work, but I don't want you to go to that trouble.
At worst, I'll do the kinds of other things I've already mentioned. In time, I'll have to replace one or both computers, anyway, though I'm really in no hurry to do that or to ditch the printer until then. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to get a new printer that may not work with a new computer, and until I identify where my current problem lies, that might not even do the trick. I'll do what I must, though. What I don't want to do is make a fuss about this for other, very kind people, or at least, not any more fuss than I must.
Thanks again, P, and to everyone, for your patience.
Jenny
Out of the blue (well, the closet), something old/new
by jennywren1420 - 9/11/08 2:56 PM In reply to: Most kind! by jennywren1420Well, a new development. When rooting around in a closet, with a view to getting rid of some things, I came upon my old Keyspan connector, which I once had for some other purpose. It has two openings for my serial cable on one end and a USB connector (with a rather short cable, unfortunately) on the other end. I can link the other end of the serial cable to the printer, but will that work? I mean, will it hurt anything, and should there be instead an adaptor that will fit right into the printer (and a long USB cable, instead of the serial one)? I suppose that I'd then plug the ends into their respective places on the computer (G4) and the printer (HP 4ML) and use the Ethernet cable only for the Internet?
That's the latest bit of this tedious story. Please, can you tell me that I'll be OK if I try this new setup? I'm willing to try it and see whether it might work. I just don't want to blow out the brains of one or both machines. If it's OK to try and then doesn't work, I'll rethink my options, as described previously in great detail.
Thanks again.
Jenny
go for it,
by mrmacfixit - 9/11/08 8:07 PM
In reply to: Out of the blue (well, the closet), something old/new by jennywren1420
That Keyspan USB to Serial, more precisely a Serial to USB, might do the trick.
It will not break anything
P
Finally!
by jennywren1420 - 9/30/08 3:07 PM In reply to: go for it, by mrmacfixit
Sorry that I took so long to get back to you all (not that you were holding your breaths, or anything). The Keyspan device didn't work at all, so I tried just juggling different settings of "Built-in Ethernet" and the Belkin USB internet adaptor, and wonder of wonders, I found one that works! My printer prints!
Thanks for suggestions and for everyone else's patience with my search for a solution. Truly, I am very grateful.
Jenny
Way to go!!!!!
by mrmacfixit - 9/30/08 5:52 PM
In reply to: Finally! by jennywren1420
When I saw your post in the other forum, about the old Macs, I wondered if you had ever sorted out this particular problem.
So, what was the secret, or is it a secret?
P
No secret
by jennywren1420 - 10/1/08 6:59 AM In reply to: Way to go!!!!! by mrmacfixit
It feels like part smarts and part magic. Probably more of the second than the first, because I was going on something you told me, once, but also just hoping. I don't know why the other possibility didn't work, but it would have taken up one of the USB connections on the computer (using anything else was useless), so maybe it's best that it didn't.
In the end I tried using AppleTalk on the Built-in Ethernet option in Network Preferences and use the Internet from the Belkin USB Internet device. It never occurred to me that I could use AppleTalk separately from what I used for the Internet, but maybe I didn't understand what you had already told me. Anyway, I'm almost afraid to say this, lest the printing fairy disapprove my letting on what I did, but so far everything's going well.
Thanks again for your interest. I can only hope that my feeble struggles may one day help someone else. Not that there are many people out there, anymore, with such a long-in-the-tooth setup as mine, but maybe there are.
Best,
Jenny
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