Windows Vista: Downgrade to XP from Vista Debate
Downgrade to XP from Vista Debate
by blueyes121705 - 10/15/08 4:38 AMI had purchased a Lenovo SL300 and had requested the XP downgrade but they put Vista on it instead. I was curious if it is worth downgrading to XP or would I wind up into more problems. I don't mind Vista that much although the start up and close down takes a while sometimes. I have 3G memory and a hard drive of 250 if that is any help. I am worried if I downgrade it might open up a pandora box for problems. I am also wondering if it is worth it knowing Windows 7 will be out relatively soon and I could always buy that then. Any suggestions would be great. -Thanks, M
XP/Vista/7...
by John.Wilkinson
- 10/15/08 6:11 AM
In reply to: Downgrade to XP from Vista Debate by blueyes121705
Vista is not compatible with all of the older hardware and software XP is, but with a new laptop the problems are usually reversed as the manufacturers do not actively develop XP drivers for the new hardware. Thus, the short answer is that if everything you have currently works you'd be best served sticking with Vista.
As to Windows 7 (now publicly known as the actual name), you'll be able to upgrade to it from either XP or Vista, so it's your choice. However, note that anything that fails to work with Vista will almost assuredly fail under Windows 7, so with it just over a year out (and currently in private beta testing) it may not be worth it to go backward just to move forward, if you plan on ultimately upgrading that is.
John
Here we go again!
by Dango517 - 10/18/08 12:31 AM In reply to: Downgrade to XP from Vista Debate by blueyes121705Amazing, at least it's been awhile. If you only knew how many of these "I want to stop progress" posts there were around at the Release of Vista. It appears most of these started by Linux users, BTW.
Don't! Vista is more stable and more secure then XP. You will also be "downgrading" your PC in some very significant ways. Standard versions of XP can't run 3GBs of RAM. This means you've just wasted some money and will need to un-install RAM. This hardware gap applies elsewhere on Vista compatible PCs.
If you revert to XP and use it exclusively till the release of 7 the jump you will be making will be large and it will take you much longer to achieve the learning curve necessary to use and feel comfortable with 7. In short, Vista users will be much more familiar with and be able to adapt to 7 better then XP users. For some this leap may be too great.
Vista's release was plagued with delays, my guess would be that 7's will as well.
If your having problems with start up. Load your OS disk at the first/BIOS screen. Once it loads, pass the language section, then on the next screen choose "start up repair". (If you have more then one drive there is an additional screen, asking which drive to use.) These aren't the exact instructions but you'll figure it out.
This thread untracked.
I would stick to Vista
by lakephillip - 10/18/08 1:01 AM In reply to: Downgrade to XP from Vista Debate by blueyes121705Vista is faster in everything, except only sometime large file copying. Since SP1 quite a few of my XP programs now work. I also have an XP computer, yet use the Vista as my main one.
Downgrade (??) to XP
by john3347 - 10/18/08 9:22 AM In reply to: Downgrade to XP from Vista Debate by blueyes121705First, I want to say that I do not understand why replacing Vista with XP is called "downgrading". If you improve your machine, you are upgrading!
If one is familiar with Windows XP, Vista file system is a nightmare!! I have been using Vista for about a year and a half now and I still have considerable difficulty finding photographs, documents, etc. Vista file system IS NOT INTUITIVE. This is in addition to the fact that, even after SP1 installation, I get MANY, MANY more "freeze-ups", and programs that decide not to load on the first try, etc. than with XP. Vista, more so than XP, is built around the assumption that the computer will have multiple users. (XP also is guilty of this, but to a lesser degree) The millions of us that exclusively use our computer must constantly work around this poorly designed system to essentially give multiple users their individual computer with one set of hardware.
This, plus all the other complaints with Vista, makes the change to XP, or better yet back to Windows 2000, an upgrade, not downgrade.
I agree.
by R. Proffitt - 10/18/08 9:25 AM
In reply to: Downgrade (??) to XP by john3347
But marketing madness by Microsoft counts a XP sale of such as a Vista sale. They are delusional and fudging the numbers to prove that Vista was a success.
Sorry but here Vista barely functions. But then again we use Windows to run test equipment and more odd things. If Microsoft abandons us we'll just look at Linux again.
Bob
That's funny
by Jimmy Greystone - 10/18/08 10:27 AM In reply to: Downgrade (??) to XP by john3347That's funny, because XP and Vista use the same set of filesystems. Either NTFS or FAT. The rest is just a matter of how YOU the user chooses to organize things. Windows doesn't care if you just dump all your files into a single folder or if you have it broken down into a very finely grained directory tree.
Of course whether or not something is poorly designed from a purely userland perspective is a matter of opinion. I find Vista's interface to be an improvement in several ways, but in several other ways it takes a few steps back. Of course I still have a soft spot for the old Windows 3.1 Program Manager. To me, that was a very good model of what a computer interface should be like, and ever since Windows95 arrived on the scene, it's been largely downhill.
It is curious though, since you seem to have such an affection for Windows 2000, which is far less Joe Average User oriented than even XP, and has even more of the multi-user orientation given that it was designed with use in a corporate environment in mind. All the things you complain about in Vista tend to be much more of an issue in Windows 2000. So I can't help but wonder if these complaints are really about Vista and not just a general resistance to change. Maybe it's been so long since you've used 2000 that you've forgotten about a lot of the things you've come to expect from XP and Vista, that weren't there in 2000.
change and vista
by blueyes121705 - 10/18/08 11:24 AM In reply to: That's funny by Jimmy GreystoneAs the person who started this post I think you bring up a good point about Vista and change. After the updates I really don't think Vista is that bad. The thing I have noticed about Vista is that there is sooo much to it and a lot you have to do if you want to fine tune it to your needs. If you like being able to change things up and customize then I think you will love Vista. However, if you want something that can work right out of the box and not have to play around with it then Vista probably isn't for you. Personally, I think other operating systems are boring because you can't customize like Vista. I also like the way Vista pushes the envolope by requiring more memory to run. Perhaps we will see better things then what we have been getting because of this.
Just doing an unscientific survey I have noticed that the majority of people I have spoken to about Vista tend to be people who like to have things simple and do not like change. They also seem to hate the new office as well because of the new design they have to learn.
Something to chew on. One of the links to dementia and alzheminers is following the same routine and not allowing for change. Perhaps MS realized this and wants to keep their user's minds healthy into old age. That's why they changed things up so much with Vista and Office. Surprised they didn't try a marketing campaign on that. "Keep your mind healthy & young with a change to Vista & Office 2007." Of course if you hate change they will drive you insane!
Maybe this should go under stupid questions........
by Mouse106 - 10/30/08 1:31 PM In reply to: change and vista by blueyes121705My new computer came with Vista. I get freeze ups and such but not to any great extent. The stupid question; what I have noticed is that with my older programs I cannot access the help functions. I get a very polite message saying "help not supported by Vista." I never used XP so I don't know if this is normal or not. Is this a Vista thing or an old program thing?
It's An 'Old Program Not Supported By Vista' Thing...
by Grif Thomas - 10/30/08 3:00 PM
In reply to: Maybe this should go under stupid questions........ by Mouse106
The older Winhlp32.exe is no longer supported by Vista.. See the link below:
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-help-files-not-supported-in-vista/
Hope this helps.
Grif
change of XP user habbit on Vista environment
by Arnold Leung - 10/31/08 2:50 AM In reply to: change and vista by blueyes121705This is a fair comment from the view point of an ordinary XP user. Vista is entirely new to old user of XP in terms of icons and locations of function keys. The same happened to MS office 2007. The Old user is just like a tourist lost in the jungle. The small firm boss is quite annoyed when stucked in such situation after office hours without instant help from tourist guide (employee at his office). All the new machines are factory installed with Vista and the downgrading takes a lot of time and efforts plus matching of license level. Only Vista user of business model or higher can enjoy free offer of window OS downgrade to XP from MS.Will Window 7 series consider improvements over the existing annoys?
'Windows 7 is Vista only better'...
by John.Wilkinson - 10/31/08 6:15 AM
In reply to: change of XP user habbit on Vista environment by Arnold Leung
That's a true statement from Microsoft's Steve Ballmer, in my opinion.
I'm currently running a pre-release version of Windows 7 and will note it's nearly identical to Vista in terms of layout and design. Aside from a modified Task Bar (more transparent and group-oriented based on icon rather than text) and the new Library virtual folder (now you select Documents and see a conglomeration of all documents you have access to...those from your local documents folder, the local public folder, networked folders, etc.) which opens with Windows+E instead of My Computer it's largely mior changes and added features which do not replace the old. (Windows applications, such as Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, Windows Mail, etc, excluded.)
There is currently a clear upgrade path from Vista to 7, but NOT from XP. (Details pending.)
As will all previous versions of Windows, there is no downgrade process...you must wipe the partition and start over. That's almost unavoidable as an older version is incapable of supporting all of the features and other changes of the new version.
John
So basically
by Jimmy Greystone - 10/31/08 8:26 AM In reply to: 'Windows 7 is Vista only better'... by John.Wilkinson
So basically, from what I've seen... Microsoft has now taken to rather shamelessly ripping off Apple's Dock idea. Granted they took the idea from NeXTStep, but considering Steve Jobs founded that company after being ousted from Apple the first time, and Apple acquired NeXT when Jobs took over again, it's not a shameless hack job.
It also sounds like they've ripped off the saved search folders from OS X. In fact, from the few reviews I've read of Windows 7, it sounds like every major new feature is one they shamelessly stole from Apple, just implemented rather poorly. Not that this is anything new, but it could come back to bite them in the arse in a big way now that Apple has a patent on the dock idea.
So you kind of have to wonder... Someone is looking to buy a new computer. Why wait for Windows 7 when they can get better versions of all the "exciting new features" in OS X right now? Actually, most of these ideas have been taken from OS X 10.4 and 10.5, which have been out longer than Vista.
Too bad Microsoft can't copy Apple in one of the ways it would count most. Turn Windows into a windowing environment for Linux and other *nix systems instead of a full blown OS.
My Puedonom Says It All ......
by Old Dog New Tricks - 11/16/08 3:36 PM In reply to: change of XP user habbit on Vista environment by Arnold LeungAs an old man of 61, I remember well my joy when using my 1st desktop, since when I've slowly but surely acquired knowledge & experience whilst progressing through 3.1 up to XP. AND ALWAYS I have believed the "new" OS to be better than the previous although that doesn't mean that I don't miss some features no longer available.
But here's the issue - Life in general is becoming more complex and that applies equally to computer operating systems as it does to (for example) motor cars. The current models are more complex simply because we expect and demand that they do more and more, and to do it faster and faster. (& yes, as an experienced ex-industrialist I understand also the commercial needs of the suppliers). So why is everyone so surprised when a new release - in this case Vista, doesn't immediately seem to perform. Of course it performs - just not so smoothly as XP according to some, better than XP to others, and in some cases it is a disaster. I remember the same issues with people preferring '98 to XP. Have they all died? Of course not, they bit the bullet, made the effort to learn more complex issues and moved on. And so it will be with Vista, and 7 (et al).
Remember also that the Vista launch date was delayed several times allowing XP to become very entrenched. Look at my situation. I consider myself a very competent XP user & was right clicking from day 1 to explore all possibilities. The problems I created for myself were endless, but I learnt from them & moved forward.
I purchased a new PC (HP Pavilion Elite, 500 GB, 3 GB ram, SATA technology etc) plus Vista back in May since when it still remains in the original carton. Why? Because I'm still learning all about Vista, SP 1 undates, & every other related issue I see in the forums or anywhere else. Why? Because at 61, I didn't have the opportunity to study computer sciences at college, but had to self learn. So that's what I'm doing in this forum, learning. As a parallel example, you can buy a car but still need to learn how to drive it before venturing out on to the highway.
So should you "downgrade/upgrade" from Vista to XP? Did King Canute stop the tide from coming it? Can you turn back the clock & re-invent yesterday? No, No & NO.
Life is about moving forward, upwards & onwards. I, for one, will adopt Vista (& accept/resolve problems as they arise).
Good luck to you all.
PS: If Vista truly was rubbish, it would have been pulled off the market.
It has been nearly 2 years since I have used Windows 2000
by john3347 - 11/21/08 8:44 PM In reply to: That's funny by Jimmy GreystoneYes Jimmy Greystone, I fully understand that XP and Vista both use NTFS (aka new technology file system). I do have a couple of external hard drives that use fat32(file allocation table, 32 bit). But this is not the file systems that I am referring to. I am referring to the way that Vista mutilates and overrides my choice of which folder to place which file into. Windows 2000 allowed me to create a folder (one single folder) named Photos to store all my photos in. Xp screwed that system up and Vista came along and mutilated it. "Let's see, did the Thanksgiving get together pictures go to "user>pictures", did they go to "all users>pictures", did they go to "Gateway Owner>documents and settings>documents>pictures", or did they go to "John>Pictures"? If I don't remember whether I named the pictures "family photos" or "kids pictures", I'm in trouble and have to just browse several folders until I happen upon the desired files. As I said, Vista file system, and XP also but to a lesser degree, is TERRIBLY screwed up. Windows Vista DOES care "if you dump all your files into a single folder" - and dumps them wherever Vista wants them with little regard as to where you want them!
My memory is fading as to DOS 5 with Windows 3.11 and, Windows 95 (in my mind, the worst OS EVER). If I broke the law with every "illegal operation" I performed in Windows 95, I would be in jail for 17 lifetimes. Things improved from there until Windows 2000, then have gone downhill with each "improvement" from there. I shudder to think what Windows 7 is going to become.
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