Windows Vista: Home Premium vs. Ultimate- help me decide
Home Premium vs. Ultimate- help me decide
by barkal_l - 8/5/08 11:40 AMHome Premium seems to offer all of what I would need, but am I missing out on the "Ultimate Extras" or other extra features? Basically, I like to have as much control over my OS as possible, but at the same time, if the extras in Ultimate are really mostly fluff (I'm not sure if BitLocker has any value for a student, no need for faxing, etc.) then I don't feel the need to deal with that extra bloat (and cost). Any thoughts on this appreciated
What Bloat?
by R. Proffitt
- 8/5/08 12:46 PM
In reply to: Home Premium vs. Ultimate- help me decide by barkal_l
BE SPECIFIC!!!
The thing about Ultimate is it includes both 32 and 64 bit versions.
Bob
Here we go...
by barkal_l - 8/5/08 2:41 PM In reply to: What Bloat? by R. Proffitt
System Restore -- I always use Norton Ghost, so this is a redundant feature for me.
Fax and Scan -- no real use for either (obviously could come in handy in the future, but I can't justify paying more for this feature)
Remote Desktop -- no forseeable need
BitLocker -- I can't see a need for my personal use, unless someone else offers advice to the contrary (I am totally open to suggestions)
And just to make clear, either can be upgraded to 64 bit for free from MS if I desire, but Ultimate includes the 64 bit in the package? So I guess lastly, in relation my other (redundant) post, does 64 bit in either version offer me anything? My use will be productivity, internet, torrents, Blu-Ray, and ripping/burning DVD's mostly.
Right...
by John.Wilkinson - 8/5/08 2:51 PM
In reply to: Here we go... by barkal_l
Ultimate includes the 64-bit DVD in the packaging, whereas Home Premium requires you to order it from Microsoft for a nominal fee.
And as for 32-bit vs 64-bit, 64-bit lets you exceed the 4GB RAM limitation and offers minor performance increases with select applications, but poses additional software/driver compatibility issues.
John
Some
by Jimmy Greystone - 8/5/08 4:10 PM In reply to: Here we go... by barkal_lSome benefit can be had from the 64-bit version of Vista based on what you describe. If you can find a 64-bit video player for your DVD/Bluray playback, it will lessen the burden on the CPU somewhat. Probably not as much as all the SSE2 and SSE3 instructions, but it will lessen it a little.
And it might improve DVD ripping speeds, depending on whether or not you're encoding them into some other format. If yes, video encoding should see a pretty significant boost from a 64-bit OS... Assuming your encoding app is also 64-bit. Of course it seems like just as we start moving into the wonderful world of 64-bit, the focus becomes on using the GPU for video encoding, and even decoding. So, depending on the app, may not be as much benefit as there might have once been.
Just don't be scared off by people who say app and driver compatibility is less. App compatibility, by and large, should be the same with both versions of Vista. There will be some specific exceptions, but for the overwhelming amount of software, if it runs on the 32-bit version of Vista, it will run on the 64-bit version of Vista. Finding 64-bit drivers can be a bit more difficult, but the hidden benefit to that is that a lot of the cheap and junky hardware that you probably don't want within 50 feet of your computer, is less likely to have a 64-bit driver... Whereas the nicer, albeit often more expensive, hardware does.
You shouldn't see any benefit on anything Internet... Most browsers are 32-bit anyway because a) there's little point to a 64-bit version, and b) some plugins like Flash won't work since they're 32-bit only.
Torrents are the same deal. There's nothing about a 64-bit torrent client that is going to make your downloads any faster. And some specific aspects of productivity apps may benefit from 64-bit, but on the whole, probably very little benefit.
Games can and will benefit if they have any kind of 64-bit extensions.
Generally, only things that use a lot of 64-bit variables are going to benefit, and probably the biggest uses of those are in multimedia apps. Video and audio encoding being probably two of the biggest examples. The catch is, you need three things to make it all work: A 64-bit CPU (a P4 with EMT64 or anything with the Core branding from Intel, and the Athlon64 from AMD), a 64-bit OS, and a 64-bit app. Two out of three won't cut it.
Apps
by barkal_l - 8/5/08 6:32 PM In reply to: Some by Jimmy GreystoneMost of my work consists of (in no particular order) MS Office 2007, DVD Shrink, Nero 7, Zune software, Windows Media Player, BitTorrent, NeroVision 4, and a bit with Photoshop and Premiere Elements. Do these benefit from 64bit instructions? Also if you have any suggestions for DVD rip programs that take advantage of 64 bit (if DVD Shrink doesn't) that would be most appreciated!
Not sure
by Jimmy Greystone - 8/5/08 8:09 PM In reply to: Apps by barkal_lNot sure on most of those. The main thing is, there won't really be much of a performance hit if you take a 32-bit app and just recompile it as a 64-bit app. This is unlike a 32-bit app trying to do 64-bit operations.
So if there's a 64-bit version of some program you use, you may as well grab it and use it unless it's something like the 64-bit IE. You'll either get little to no benefit from it or a pretty good amount of benefit, depending on the program.
Nope...
by John.Wilkinson - 8/5/08 9:51 PM
In reply to: Apps by barkal_l
Photoshop CS4 will be available in a 64-bit enabled version, but it hasn't completed beta testing yet. The others are a simple no. I will add, though, that DVD Shrink is prohibited in the US while most of the content on BitTorrent is illegal, so watch yourself.
John
So basically I won't see much if any benefit from 64 bit?
by barkal_l - 8/6/08 6:04 AM In reply to: Nope... by John.Wilkinson
IF basically all of my commonly used programs cannot/do not take advantage of 64 bit, then it seems like 64 bit does not do much for me at the moment. However, if/when I decide to migrate to 64-bit, is it relatively simple, a la upgrading Windows via SP's?
I'll peg the gain at 2 to 5 percent.
by R. Proffitt - 8/6/08 8:25 AM
In reply to: So basically I won't see much if any benefit from 64 bit? by barkal_l
The higher marks go to 64 bit enabled apps.
This is OBSERVED and timed with a stopwatch over the few machines we were able to do this.
GAMERS will part with thousands of bucks for 2 percent so let's hear it for them!
"Nope" again...
by John.Wilkinson - 8/6/08 9:15 AM
In reply to: So basically I won't see much if any benefit from 64 bit? by barkal_l
There is no upgrade/conversion path from 32-bit to 64-bit...you must backup your files, reformat, install all applications from scratch, and restore your files from backup. Best to pick one and stick with it unless you have the time on your hands and do not mind the repetition.
John
Not at the moment
by Jimmy Greystone - 8/6/08 9:48 AM In reply to: So basically I won't see much if any benefit from 64 bit? by barkal_lNot at the moment, though you COULD replace the giant bloated mess that is Windows Media Player with a nice 64-bit version of MediaPlayer Classic HomeCinema. Virtually all the features of Windows Media Player, plus a large number of others, all packed into a single binary file of under 5MB. Toss in a 64-bit version of ffdshow, and you're good to go for virtually any audio or video file you can throw at it. So far as I know, even in Vista x64, Windows Media Player is a 32-bit app.
But you will need to pick one or the other now, unless you don't mind formatting later, as already said. There's no upgrade path, only formatting and starting over. Right now you buy Vista x64 for the potential it brings down the road once more 64-bit apps start rolling out.
FWIW, I have a friend who has the 32-bit Vista, and honestly my system runs considerably smoother with Vista x64. Given my friend is probably every bit as competent as me with computers, I'm inclined to put it down to his system being an HP. In case you missed the memo, always avoid HP/Compaq systems or you're bound to wind up regretting it.
64 Bit Vista upgrade
by cygnus9th - 8/11/08 5:58 AM In reply to: Not at the moment by Jimmy GreystoneTrue , you DO have to start from scratch for the OS, but you do not need to wipe your hard drive before you do so... Vista will back up any files you tell it to before conducting upgrade. You can name this folder whatever (old stuff from days of yore, be creative!) After you upgrade, you will notice 2 different program files folder, Program Files and Program Files(x86). The second folder is where your 32 bit apps will go.
Have been running 64 bit Home Premium for about a year now and definitely notice a more stable system. And ignore the remark about HP/COMPAQ.... I have run HP computers in my business and home for years and really no better / worse than Dell, Gateway, (Insert favorite brand here). And yes I have 2 Dell Laptops, a Gateway and a Acer at home, so I can speak confidently on this subject.
And while I wish I could argue against, mostly everything on BitTorrent is hacked so be careful.
So then what about
by Jimmy Greystone - 8/11/08 9:47 AM In reply to: 64 Bit Vista upgrade by cygnus9thSo then what about ALL the people here, and on other forums elsewhere on the Internet, who have HP/Compaq systems and experience large numbers of problems? It's not like I just came up with this out of nowhere, since I'm a reluctant Dell owner and prefer to build my own systems. It's just my old system died very unexpectedly (thank you UPS) and I didn't/don't have the time to research parts for a new system or have a good place to assemble a new system. The comment to stay away from HP/Compaq systems is based on observing that there seems to be a disproportionately high number of issues reported on places like this by people who own HP/Compaq systems... Not so much people who own Dell, Apple, Lenovo, or Toshiba systems.
But I suppose because you have a couple of HP systems that don't give you any problems, that should discount the experiences of scores of others who have had problems. Clearly all those people are just delusional, or are just seeking attention, and your experiences should trump theirs. You don't have to look very far to find evidence of self-bias do ya folks?
Take a look around these forums and some others you find on the Internet. Keep a running tally of how many issues are reported with HP/Compaq systems compared to other brands. And obviously it's no fair going to say the Dell support forums and then claiming that you never saw a single person complain about anything but Dell systems. We're talking generalized forums like this one, that cater to any make and model. I bet you'll find that HP/Compaq makes up more than it's fair share of reported problems. I haven't actually tabulated any results, but I'd say HP/Compaq accounts for probably around half of all problems reported. So even if you split that over the two brands, ignoring that it's the same company producing them... Just among the major brands of Apple, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba, Dell, Gateway/eMachines, Acer, and obviously HP/Compaq... That's a total of 8 major players in the computer OEM market, so with an even distribution you'd expect each OEM to experience about 12.5% of all reported problems. If you boost that to 10 brand names, and HP having both HP and Compaq brands, then you could expect them to account for 20% of complaints using an even distribution. If you remove Toshiba from consideration because they really only make laptops, then you're looking at anywhere from about 14.3-22.2% of complaints for HP/Compaq. That's assuming each vendor had an equal number of complaints... So, really, HP/Compaq seems to have around 2X its fair share of complaints, using my informal estimation of around 50% of complaints being about HP/Compaq systems. But if you want to conduct a more formal study, be my guest. We'll keep it simple, since you're only one person... Find 4 other forums like this one, and observe them for a full month. Keep track of every brand reported in the initial problem report, and then we'll see which one has the most in the end. Assuming there aren't any issues where one company gets a bad batch of parts and has to issue a recall. As those are generally isolated events, they would unfairly skew the results.
Maybe
by misha219 - 8/12/08 5:59 AM In reply to: So then what about by Jimmy GreystoneMaybe it is because more HP systems are sold. A lot of problems are from people who have no idea how to use a computer must less solve problems.
I personally own HP laptop, Dell laptop, Gateway desktop, MacBook, and two desktop PCs I built myself. I have had no problem with any of them.
Cheers!
Misha
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