Bought a laptop with Vista and put XP on it also.
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This is a nice computer. Thought someone may like to see.
The VistaBootPro people say this can't be done.
I bought a new laptop at Walmart today. Gateway MT6840-$698.00
I bought a Gateway 7330GZ last year for $1150.00 {80 GB’s , 512 MB of Ram}
I bought this one for a customer and have to share my thoughts for those interested.
This Gateway MT 6840 is a really fast computer and has 160 GB hard drive and 1GB of memory and came with Vista premium. It also came with a recovery DVD of Vista premium.
It is so fast I just ordered a 1 GB memory stick for my 7330GZ from Newegg.
OK, here is what I did when I got the new MT6840 home.
I’ll number the steps.
1. I put a Windows XP CD in the drive and booted to install.
2. When it asked me what I wanted to do I deleted the recovery partition and I deleted the Vista OS partition.
3. Now I had 160 GB unformatted hard drive and chose {quick} format and installed Windows XP Professional.
4. It installed perfectly and I had a 160 GB hard drive with Windows XP Professional.
5. I installed Microsofts’s NetFramework 1.1
6. I installed Partition Magic. BUT NOT “Boot Magic”.
7. I installed PowerQuest Drive Image 7.0.
8. I opened Partition Magic and right clicked on Drive C {160GB’s} and clicked on label and labeled it “January”.
9. I booted the computer.
10. I opened Partition Magic and in the upper left hand corner selected “create a new partition.”
11. I made the new partition 120 GB’s and took all the space from January.
12. I made sure it was a primary partition. {Click on primary because default in partition magic is {extended logical}.
13. In the lower left hand corner click on apply. The computer will reboot to do this.
14. Now you have a 40 GB {Partition 1} with Windows XP operating system.
15. You also have a PRIMARY {Partition 2} of 140 GB’s.
16. Open Partition Magic and right click on the 140GB partition and click on label and label it February.
17. Now I opened Partition Magic and click on “create a new partition”.
18. Unchecked all the boxes except February and created a logical partition 100 GB’s. Clicked apply. Took all the space from February.
19. Now February is 40 GB’s.
20. Open Partition Magic and right click on the 100 GB and label it March.
21. I opened Partition Magic and in the upper left hand corner selected “create a new partition.”
22. Unchecked all the boxes except March and created a logical partition 50 GB’s. Clicked apply. Took all the space from March.
23. Right clicked and labeled the new partition April.
24. I opened Partition Magic and in the upper left hand corner selected “create a new partition.”
25. Unchecked all the boxes except April and created a logical {FAT 32}partition two {2}GB’s. That’s right, only 2 GB’s. Clicked apply. Took all the space from April.
26. Right clicked on the 2GB’s and labeled it “Boot Magic”. But still have NOT installed boot magic.
27. I then right clicked on Partition Two Labeled February and at the bottom “click on advanced and set Partition Two ACTIVE {the partition it will boot to}. Partition 2 is a blank partition with NOTHING on it.
28. I put the Vista DVD in the DVD rom drive and booted.
29. Vista loaded and asked me which partition I wanted to load Vista on and I selected February.
30. Vista installed perfectly and I booted it several times to make sure. I installed some small programs including Adobe 8.0 and Nero 7.
31. AT THIS POINT I CAN’T GET OUT OF VISTA.
32. The only way to get out of Vista is to put the “Boot Magic Rescue Disk Floppy” in the USB drive {I use an external floppy disk that plugs into USB port}and boot the computer.
33. The floppy loads and asks me which partition I want to boot to.
34. I choose Partition 1 {January} and press enter and unclick the floppy from the floppy drive so it doesn’t load again.
35. It boots perfectly to Windows XP Professional.
36. NOW I INSTALL BOOT MAGIC and it goes right into the 2GB partition labeled “Boot Magic”.
37. I now click on the “Boot Magic” folder and click on the wrench folder {It has a picture of a wrench”.}
38. I make sure only January is the default {Windows XP} and put a check mark in the box in the lower left hand corner and reboot.
39. The computer boots to Boot Magic and gives me a choice of Windows XP or Vista.
40. After I boot several times to each one to make sure it is a true dual boot I open boot magic again and click on each partition and click on properties and label one XP Pro and one Vista. Now when it boots to “Boot Magic” I see which is which.
This whole thing took about two hours.
Cheers:Jimmy Carter
Hope Enzo sees this.
Where did you find all the correct drivers for the XP installation and did you install the SATA drivers (assuming it's a SATA drive) during the XP install?
Just curious.
Grif
I got all the drivers from Gateway support web site. All you have to do is download the drivers.You have to give the serial number or model so you get the right stuff.
You do know of course that you right click on MyComputer and select properties and than hardware and then device manager so you see the yellow question marks so you know what you need.
The only thing I couldn't find was audio and tech help instantly gave me the link and I downloaded it in a few seconds.
...the device isn't listed.. You first need to know the specific device before you can download the correct drive. (As such, it's ALWAYS a good idea to write down all devices and drivers that are showing in the Vista Device Manager BEFORE downgrading to XP). Unfortunately, some folks take your list of instructions literally and jump right in booting from the XP disc. (By the way, not all brand names will recognize the XP disc when you try to boot as you've done.) Without a good list of the hardware devices, many will not find which drivers are needed.. And although you must have had success with your Gateway machine, it's not so easy with other brand names, specifically Sony..
Hope this helps.
Grif
A hard drive is a hard drive.
The computer came with a recovery disk that restores it to the condition when you bought it.
Remember the key words in my numbered list of what I did were DELETE the recovery partition and DELETE the OS partition so you start with an unformatted hard drive of 160 GB's.
THIS IS HOW EVERY PC THAT IS PRODUCED STARTS.
MANY people are stuck with VISTA and don’t like it.
How confident am I that this laptop is stable? I expect never to be called to fix it.
Consumers need to know they are not stuck with $100’s of dollar items they don’t like and can’t resolve without paying someone more $$ to change it.
They can go to this web site; and get different advice to do the same thing.
http://www.vistabootpro.org/
They call it dual boot. I call mine dual boot.
Their’s is controlled by Windows, mine is controlled by ME.
I can turn mine on and off. They can’t turn their’s on or off.
I can hide one and only boot to VISTA or only boot to WINDOWS. They can’t.
In my setup Windows doesn’t see VISTA and VISTA doesn’t see Windows.
In my setup you can NOT access Partition Magic from within VISTA. You must follow number 32 to get out of VISTA.
People may be interested in what I did.
Manipulating a hard drive is EASY.
Why scare people?
If the people that run this site think I am out of line all they have to do is click on my posts and select DELETE.
Rosa hardware. I'f been hearing more problems with getting XP drivers for NVIDIA series 8 drivers. I had a project when I went home to Ohio to install Vista on a machine that was purchased with XP. Well its easier to install vista in a duel boot on a XP machine then instaling XP on a Vista machine. The main problem is XP uses the boot.ini and Vista uses the new BCD. What I did was downloaded a free partitian manager used in the Linux world called Gparted. Becaue you boot with gparted it doesn't matter what OS you have. Well one in Gparted I wanted to creat a new 20 gig partitian on a 80 gig drive. ALthough it took 3 hours things were great and i had 2 partitians one C drive 60 gig with XP and one clean unformatted d drive 20 gig. I put in the DVD for Vista and installed to the 20 gig drive. Thinkg went fine and when it finished it would only boot in Vista and Vista became the c drive. When I tried to boot in XP i got an erro boot.ini not found. I copied the boot.ini for a desktop XP system onto the d Drive. The error for can't find boot.ini went away but still got a black screen and didn't boot. I then went into the boot.ini using a tool with Gparted is saw something like this [boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect
What I then realised it was 1 disk and 2 partions so the line that said XP i switched to partition(2) and I now could boot into
Vista or XP.
Exactly Orlbuckeye, good job, on my original post to start this thread I only posted the relevant information of installing Windows XP and Vista on the same hard drive and booting to them.
Because I forget easy being in my mid seventies I always practice my techniques when I get the opportunity and this new purchase of the MT6840 Gateway was right up my alley. I couldn’t wait to get it home.
Here is what I did just for fun.
HERE IS THE PART I LEFT OUT OF MY ORIGINAL POST.
After I installed Windows XP on the 160 GB hard drive.{Steps #1 to 4}.
1. I installed Powerquest Drive Image 7.0 and NetFramework 1.1
2. I opened it and selected “Back up a drive”.
3. I made the target a folder in my external hard drive labeled “MT6840 Partition 1,January”.
4. I saved the Partition labeled “January” with Windows XP Professional into this folder.
5. I opened Partition Magic and partitioned the hard drive into “February” and “March” partitions 2 and 3 with 40 GB’s.
6. At this point I had a hard drive with 160 GB’s divided into:
7. Primary Partition 1, labeled January with 40GB’s with Windows XP Professional
8. Primary Partition 2, labeled February with 40.2GB’s of blank NTFS.
9. Primary Partition 3, labeled March with 40.4GB’s of blank NTFS.
10. And an extended logical partition of 38 + GB’s of blank NTFS
11. Then I opened Partition Magic again and created a new partition 1.5 GB’s of FAT32 for the “Boot Magic” installation which I still had NOT installed.
12. I then practiced how I trick windows.
13. This amazed me because it went off so smooth even I was shocked.
14. Here is what I did.
15. I edited the boot loader on Windows XP Professional by right clicking on My Computer and click on properties and choose the advanced button and click on the bottom SETTINGS button and choose edit. *Save a copy before you change it so if you screw it up you can go back to the original settings which look exactly like the three I have posted below so if you forget to save a copy use mine.
This is how the three different boot loaders look, but remember it is still the same operating system…just a DIFFERENT NUMBERED BOOT LOADER.
16. Partition One Boot Loader
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" fastdetect/
17. Partition Two Boot Loader
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" fastdetect/
18.Partition Three Boot Loader.
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" fastdetect/
19. Next I opened the boot loader and changed the number from 1 to 2 and:{Tricking Windows} Clicked SAVE CHANGES so the boot loader is changed.
20. I opened PowerQuest Drive Image 7.0 and selected “Back up a drive”.
21. I made the target a folder in my external hard drive
labeled “MT6840 Partition 2, February”.
22. As soon as the “Dive Image” was saved I opened “the boot loader” and changed the number back from #2 to # 1. You must do this right away so you don’t forget. Remember I only have one operating system but I am saving it THREE times with THREE different boot loader numbers which are 1, 2, and 3.
23. Next I booted.
24. I opened PowerQuest Drive Image 7.0 and selected “Restore a drive”.
25. I restored the saved “Drive Image” of “MT6840 Partition 2, February” to the Primary Partition 2, labeled February with 40.2GB’s of blank NTFS.
26. Next I opened the boot loader and changed the number from 1 to 3 and:{Tricking Windows} Clicked SAVE CHANGES so the boot loader is changed.
27. I opened PowerQuest Drive Image 7.0 and selected “Back up a drive”.
28. I made the target a folder in my external hard drive
labeled “MT6840 Partition 3, March”.
29. As soon as the “Dive Image” was saved I opened “the boot loader” and changed the number back from #3 to # 1. You must do this right away so you don’t forget. Remember I only have one operating system but I am saving it THREE times with THREE different boot loader numbers which are 1, 2, and 3.
30. Next I booted.
31. I opened PowerQuest Drive Image 7.0 and selected “Restore a drive”.
32. I restored the saved “Drive Image” of “MT6840 Partition 3, March” to the Primary Partition 3, labeled March with 40.4GB’s of blank NTFS.
33. Now I have three operating systems of Windows XP Professional installed on January, February and March.
34. At this point I don’t have to install “Boot Magic” if I don’t want to.
35. I can navigate from one to the other by simply opening Partition Magic and setting the one I want to use “ACTIVE”.
36. I installed “Boot Magic” and booted to all three perfectly. I was very pleased.
Having practiced “Tricking Windows” I now I had to go back to getting the computer ready so I opened “Partition Magic” and deleted the following partitions
in this order.
1. I deleted the FAT 32 partition.
2. I deleted the Logical Partition.
3. I deleted Primary Partition 3, March
4. I formatted Primary Partition 2 using NTFS.
5. I created a new extended logical partition from the unformatted space created by deleting the FAT 32, Logical and March Partitions.
6. I then put the Vista DVD in the DVD drive and booted to formatted blank NTFS partition two which I set “ACTIVE”.
7. This is step # 28 on the original post on this thread.
So you can see I had fun and it went off without the slightest mishap.
I was impressed with the MT6840.
Disclaimer: This is just me experimenting and I remind you of the EULA you agree to when you purchase Microsoft products and I in no way advocate violating that agreement.
I save the drive images and only use one at a time therefore abiding by the EULA. I usually delete them as fast as I make them like I did yesterday with the Gateway MT6840.
All of my operating systems work independent of each other because I partition the hard drive without using Microsoft Windows. I partition them with Partition Magic.
I can set a system restore point on anyone of them and it has no effect on the other operating systems on the other partitions.
IN OTHERWORDS it is a true partition, separate, and independent, unknown to Windows.
PS: Orlbuckeye, I like Ubuntu.
Quiz for anyone reading this far. WHY DID I MAKE THE PARTITIONS
40GB's
40.2GB's
40.4GB's
I bet you don't know.
Apparently you haven't seen the problems I've seen.. First, SATA and EIDE are not the same, especially when dealing with an XP installation. In addition, it's not the hard drive that causes the problem with the XP disc recognition. It's frequently the BIOS. Like you, I wipe all the drives but I do it with a disc wipe program before installing XP. (Dban, Killdisk, etc..) Such a wipe cleans the drive of all partitions, MBR, etc. But that's not always the solution. Unfortunately, some BIOS versions, particularly Intel can prevent the XP disc from being recognized. IN other words, in such cases you can't perform STEP #1 of your first post.. The XP disc isn't recognized, you can't wipe the partitions, and you can't pass go before correcting a few things. It's fixable but you don't mention that particular issue in your first post. ON the other hand, many BIOS setups will work exactly like you've suggested and the install goes smoothly, just like your's. More power to ya.. Keep up the good work but this is simply to let other users know that not all downgrades and dual boots are as easy as you've experienced with the Gateway..
And despite your statement: "Consumers need to know they are not stuck with $100’s of dollar items they don’t like and can’t resolve without paying someone more $$ to change it." ..remember, most "consumers" don't have an XP disc with a legal Product key sitting around and dowgrading certainly isn't for the feint of heart.. Assuming they aren't downgrading from the Ultimate or Business version of Vista, they still need to purchase XP. For those other users, check those prices first.
Your statement: "In my setup Windows doesn’t see VISTA and VISTA doesn’t see Windows." Sorry, VISTA IS Windows and Windows IS VISTA.. Unless you meant that Windows XP and Windows VISTA don't see each other because they're set up as a dual boot.. If that's the case, then yep, that's normal for dual boots. They operate independently of each other.
I also see that you've been promoting this thread to users of Toshiba and other brands of computers.. I hope it helps them.. Please be sure to also follow those other threads close to insure it's "easy" for them to find the needed XP drivers for their brand of comps. Thanks for helping.
Hope this helps.
Grif
Grif
Thank you for the heads up on warning people about running into problems.
Grif
I didn’t realize you were a Moderator on this site. So I decided to answer your points you called me out on.
1. I probably have not seen the problems you have seen because of your very extensive work you do on this site. Your expert advice given on this site is very much needed and appreciated by all.
2. Having taught advanced science for over 36 years with a little preparation I could go into a classroom and teach the difference between SATA and EIDE, I fully expect SATA eventually to completely replace EIDE the same way I expect PCIExpress to completely replace PCI and AGP which has much faster interface similar to the data transfer difference between:{ parallel ATA, or PATA, to Serial ATA}
3. I only erase disks or hard drives with the utilities the hard drive maker provides. For example, I erase a Seagate hard drive using the manufacturer’s {Seagate} published software. If it is Maxtor {now Seagate} I would use the previous Maxtor program.{Powermax 4.23} I never use third party programs such as Dban, Killdisk, etc. I never recommend using these programs you use.
4. Grif, you lost me on point 4; If the computer would not have recognized the XP disc when I performed step # 1 I would have changed It so it would have recognized it by adjusting the boot sequence in the Bios.
Since you asked, I was fully prepared to install Windows XP no matter how long it took or how many roadblocks I ran into. I did this once {only ever happened once} and no matter what I did it wouldn’t boot {recognize} to the XP CD. It did boot from the floppy disk so I installed Windows XP using Microsoft’s floppy disks found here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310994
But Grif, you can’t post every POSSIBLE roadblock outlining a procedure such as I performed. The message would get LOST or DOMINATED by speculative guessing as to what may go wrong.
5. Money and the cost of a full version of Windows XP Home or Professional.
It never entered my mine but I must add that people always find the money for those things they WANT. In today’s economy the price of a new Windows XP CD is less than two tanks of gas in a SUV. So I discount this point entirely.
6. Grif, it is obvious that I meant to say XP can’t see Vista and Vista can’t see XP.
7. Grif you said that quote “I also see that you've been promoting this thread to users of Toshiba and other brands of computers. I hope it helps them. Please be sure to also follow those other threads close to insure its "easy" for them to find the needed XP drivers for their brand of comps.”
Are you inferring that I shouldn’t post information unless I am prepared to follow all the threads I post help on? Remember I am old and have trouble remembering what I go after when I go from the computer office to the kitchen. How on earth will I be able to follow all the threads I give advice on to make sure I am helping them if they have trouble?
Are you inviting me to be a moderator on this site?? If so how much do I get paid and when do I start?
Grif, I want leave you with one thought.
Last week on a computer I was having fun and installed operating systems on one 250 GB hard drive in this order.
Partition 1 Vista
Partition 2 Vista
Partition 3 Vista
Partition 4 Windows XP
NOW HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?
Plus I quad booted to each one using Partition Magic’s Boot Magic and could make any one of them the default and hide the rest and turn off boot magic.
I discovery I can do anything with Vista I can do with XP.
I can even save a Vista partition {Copy a partition} of 80 GB’s and open Partition Magic and click on resize and change it to 40 GB’s, than DELETE the partition I copied and restore the resized 40 GB Vista partition to the deleted partition.
I am just having fun and in no way advocate violating the EULA in any of the products I use.
For example, after I performed this experiment I put the Powermax 4.23 drive eraser in the external floppy drive and erased the hard drive to zero and planned my next experiment.
Thanks for the information...
My ONLY issue with your initial post was that you made it appear as if your 40 steps were all that was needed to create a nice, easy dual-boot installation package.. As you stated: "But Grif, you can’t post every POSSIBLE roadblock outlining a procedure such as I performed." Maybe..but I tried to address a few by asking questions about specific roadblocks that many here have run into.. As you mentioned, those who have experience with these things can generally find the needed path to success. On the other hand, we have a wide variety of users here and many would like to "downgrade" to XP from Vista.. Some simply don't know those workarounds.. (By the way, the BIOS problem about recognizing the XP disc in "Step #1" has nothing to do with the boot order, although that can sometimes be an issue as you've shown.. The BIOS problem I'm referring to is a "Native SATA Support" option in some Intel motherboards which needs to be UNCHECKED in order for the XP disc to be recognized.. It's not in all BIOS settings but it's there enough to cause issues.)
As to Vista vs XP, everyone is going to have a different opinion based on their own personal needs.. I work in a large government agency and find no advantage for using Vista in our networked environment (thousands of computers here) and find quite a few disadvantages at this time in it's evolution.. My use of Dban, etc. comes from my needs as well. I erase/wipe quite a few HD's and they must be to government standards and because I don't have the time to hunt down all the newest utilities for each brand and because some of them don't perform to DOD standards, these work well for me.
As to being a moderator... We assist on these forums as volunteers and I WISH we got paid. LOL Our payment is an opportunity to learn from everyone else that posts here.. That's the advantage of a forum concept.. Lots of input from a variety of different folks.. But still, I've always felt that members should keep track of the posts they make simply because questions from other members may be asked about each response.. But it's up to the individual as to how much time they can spend here.. Time is valuable.. I know.
Take care.
Grif
A month ago, I bought a Gateway MX8738 laptop with Windows Vista Home Premium OS.
I've created a separate partition and now want to install Windows XP Professional on the newly created partion. I have a licensed version of XP Pro and Office 2003 so I'm ready to go.
Can you give me a reasonably simple step-by-step set of instructions to do this.
Note I want to run XP almost exclusively as Vista is cumbersome for my purposes and has negatively impacted my productivity.
I'm not a techie so the use of a lot of jargon quickly gets my head spinning. I'm not quite sure how to handle the drivers issue. Basically, assume I know nothing except how to insert a disc into a drive and point and click.
Any assistance is appreciated.
Buckeye
I'd recommend that you NOT perform this... Unfortunately, there are enough situations where "workarounds" are required that you need to have a fair amount of computer experience to work through it.. It's not something impossible, but a dual boot probably will serve no purpose in your situation. (I personally prefer a full wipe of the drive and reinstall of XP but each user has their own needs and wants.) In each of these "downgrade" situations, I've mentioned that this is not for the inexperienced or the faint of heart.
"I'm not quite sure how to handle the drivers issue." The drivers are a MAJOR part of making the computer work right.. Installing SATA drivers, motherboard/chipset drivers, audio, video, etc.. require doing the research within Device Manager of Vista, then finding all the corresponding drivers for XP.. Many are easy to find simply by checking the Gateway site.. Some need to be found elsewhere..
Have you contacted Gateway yet to see if ALL of the drivers are available through their site? If not, please do.. As to installing XP on an extra partition, the link below provides a pretty fair tutorial on installing XP after Vista but much depends on exactly how you created the partition:
http://apcmag.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp
Hope this helps.
Grif
I bought a Gateway MX8738 last week and decided that I was not going to use Vista. There were too many conflicts with my software. So I spent three days figuring how to install XP Professional and then two more days trying to find all the necessary drivers. I had very little success with the files they provided me. I was grateful enough that they were even trying. Eventually I was able to locate drivers for all components. The ethernet controller was the most difficult. I had to borrow the driver from a Vista installation on another partition. But anyway all that matters is that it works.
The point of my message to you is that is if you or anyone else needs the drivers, I can zip them and put them on an ftp server for download. Hopefully it will save someone from the same headache I have endured.
--
VW-DrGizmore
I just recently purchased a Gateway MX8738 and would like to reload it with XP. If you could post those drivers that would help me tremendously. Just let me know.
Thanks
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