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Buzz Out Loud Lounge: Requiring a data plan

by DangMI - 8/25/09 2:44 PM
Post 46 of 65

Lots of good points

by DangMI - 9/8/09 2:45 PM In reply to: Its not really a free market in the US. by minimalist

But a little black and white. I never said there was a full-blown free market, but the forces still exist however tamped down they might be by fewer players being in the game. You still don't HAVE to buy a cell phone, much less a particular plan. And when you're deciding how to spend, you're looking at bang for the buck vs the bottom line, If one carrier costs more for the same amount of bang, then you don't go with them. If you really love a cool new feature, but it adds tons to your bottom line, you say "Oh well" and you move on. Otherwise, why don't we all have 100" TVs? And if someone came out with a true iPhone competitor with as good or better coverage for $100 do you really think they wouldn't sell out in hours?

As for having a choice of 2 or 3, I would have loved to have had that many in some of the rural areas I've lived in. There was 1 ISP available in the bad old dialup days in one area, giving a restricted number of minutes for like $20/month. After a couple years, another company came along and undercut the price. The original then increased minutes. Eventually both were under $10 with unlimited minutes. The forces are still there, its just that fighting upstream takes longer.

Post 47 of 65

It's not a free market also because

by Nicholas Buenk - 9/8/09 6:34 AM In reply to: You know, that doesn't really bother me by DangMI

Phone exclusivity, is collusion to create monopoly on a product to drive up prices. And I think this is the main factor at play here.

Post 48 of 65

Iphone exclusivity has nothing to do with

by minimalist - 9/8/09 4:47 PM In reply to: It's not a free market also because by Nicholas Buenk

overpriced data plans and WAY over priced text message charges across all phones and all four US carriers. It has nothing to do with industry-wide contract lock-ins and the inability to get a discount for service if you bring your own phone to the table. It has nothing to do with carrier policies which prevent them from unlocking a phone you have completely paid for by fulfilling your contract.

All of these things are issues which affect virtually every cell phone user in the US. Exclusivity arrangements (which are always lifted at some point... 6 months, a year, several years in the iphones case) are the least of the problems facing US cell phone customers. If you really want an iPhone, it will eventually come to other carriers, just like the RAZR eventually came to T-Mobile after starting out at an absurd 600 dollars on AT&T. But text messaging will never get any cheaper and service contracts never get any fairer no matter how long you wait.

There's a huge difference between willingly paying the price of being an early adopter and just getting screwed over and over again with no choice to go elsewhere.

Post 49 of 65

Most smartphones do not require a data plan

by nutjob - 9/8/09 3:03 PM In reply to: Requiring a data plan by DangMI

My spouse used a smart phone without a plan for over two years. She uses wireless to update her calendar/contacts.

Post 50 of 65

Do you know whether that's still available?

by DangMI - 9/8/09 4:08 PM In reply to: Most smartphones do not require a data plan by nutjob

Everyone seems to be saying that all the carriers have stopped allowing that now.

Post 51 of 65

Let me see if I've got this straight....

by skellener - 9/9/09 9:23 AM In reply to: Do you know whether that's still available? by DangMI

AT&T requires a data plan with smart phone (like the iPhone) and then says it's too much of a strain on their network because everyone is using it? W T F??

I think it's time to break the carriers up - again.

Post 52 of 65

Wow, where do I start?

by porsche10x - 9/17/09 3:32 PM In reply to: Requiring a data plan by DangMI

First, I have the following suggestion for you. If all you want to do is sync up your contacts and appointments, why do you need a smartphone at all? Just about ANY phone, even a fifteen year old one as big as a milk carton will do that for you, and easily. You can also get (usually for free) software with the phone so you can organize your contacts and appointments on your PC and instantly download them to your phone (or upload them in the other direction) so you don't have to type on the tiny phone keypad.

Next, I'm not sure I buy the original premise. Are you really saying that Verizon won't let you use a smart phone without a data plan? REALLY??? Or are you saying that they won't give you a good REBATE on a smart phone without a data plan? Hey, I have ATT, so I don't know what Verizon can and can't do, but I can use ANY phone on my ATT network. I'm not even sure they have a way of knowing what phone I'm using! I used to use an unlocked T-mobile sidekick (yes, a smartphone) on my ATT voice-only, no data or texting plan (Unlocked by T-mobile, by the way, not some grey market mod). I imagine web browsing didn't work. I don't know. I never used it. As far as I know, at least with ATT, I can use just about any GSM phone. I just plug in my SIM card and it works.

If you are actually talking about rebates or subsidies, then, gee, what do you expect? Some of you have said that that would be "kinda" fair. Kinda?? Of COURSE it's fair. If they give you more money back, they require you to sign up for a more expensive plan. It makes perfect sense to me. It usually goes something like this: you get maybe a $200 phone for free with a voice plan, a $600 smart phone for $200 with a data plan. Twice as much money back! I'll bet if you ask, they'll give you the smart phone for $400 with no data plan. Some of you have posted calculations about how much money they make off of you, like they're ripping you off. Have you forgotton, you ARE getting extra service for your extra money, right? Do you want them to pay you to use the phone? Geez (Although I do agree, it's wrong to charge more for the same plan with an Iphone. Then again, if you pay more to use one, then you're an idiot for getting one and deserve to pay more).

Next, some of you have complained that it's unfair to those of you who bring-your-own-phone or keep your old phone after the contract period, that you pay the same as those who get the new phone and rebate. You want a lower price for your continued service since you don't burden them with the new phone cost. GUESS WHAT??? They WILL give you a lower price if you don't get a new phone from them! All you have to do is ask! If you get the same 2 year contract without getting a new phone at all, you'll get CASH BACK! They won't volunteer this information, of course.

Last, you'll get a better deal and much greater flexibility if you go to an independent (but authorized) reseller instead of the cellular companies' name-brand stores. Do be careful, as they come and go quickly. Find one in your area that's been around for a while. It would suck to have them go out of business before you get your rebate. Just to give you some idea, a long time ago, I started with T-mobile. The T-mobile store would give me three basic phones for, i dunno, $20 or $30 each on a 1400 minute family plan. I went to a local store and got three basic (but better) phones for free, plus $150 back, plus all sorts of accessories for free, for the same 2 year contract. After two years, I renewed my contract but kept the phones. I got $600 cash back. This was a while ago and the landscape has changed a bit. Last time I did this (a few years ago) I got about $300 for my no-new-phone renewal with ATT.

By the way, if you really want a smart phone, just buy (an unlocked) one yourself, use ATT or T-mobile, and put your SIM card in it. You can always pay-as-you-go for data, or have them disable the data and use wi-fi where available. Sync your phone to your PC via bluetooth or a USB cable. Phone doesn't support that? Pick a different phone.

Post 53 of 65

Wow, did you READ the OP?

by DangMI - 9/18/09 2:43 AM In reply to: Wow, where do I start? by porsche10x

I said "She doesn't want to have to paste over into some proprietary phone book app every time she changes something, especially as far as appts and the like." and your solution is "You can also get (usually for free) software with the phone so you can organize your contacts and appointments on your PC and instantly download them to your phone..."? Perhaps you have more time to do dual entry tasks and track parallel systems at work, but it was her wish to have it be a helpful resource, not an extra series of tasks that might end up with her losing an important appt.

Post 54 of 65

OS X supports

by Nicholas Buenk - 9/18/09 2:50 AM In reply to: Wow, did you READ the OP? by DangMI

Bluetooth syncing with the address book. Just pair the phone to your mac.

Post 55 of 65

Cool, thanks

by DangMI - 9/18/09 3:03 AM In reply to: OS X supports by Nicholas Buenk

However, are you saying syncing to a proprietary phone book, or directly from Outlook? Else we'd still be in the land of dual entry, or going thru export/import steps if that capability's there, unless I'm missing something.

There's the bigger issue that the fact is neither we nor work are using Macs, but I'm just curious.

Post 56 of 65

Not sure what you can do about this on windows

by Nicholas Buenk - 9/19/09 1:32 AM In reply to: Cool, thanks by DangMI

But an address book app comes as part of OS X. Intergrates with apples Mail and other apps.

Post 57 of 65

Whoa there...

by porsche10x - 9/28/09 3:33 PM In reply to: Wow, did you READ the OP? by DangMI

Yes, I read (and understood) the OP. What makes you think a "non-smart" phone is necessarily any harder to sync up contacts, appointments, etc., than a smart-phone? My Sony W810i syncs directly up to Outlook (and other programs) via bluetooth or a USB cable using the free app provided. Just takes one mouse-click. By the way, a few years ago, got two of them for free + money back with no data plan.

Post 58 of 65

Very cool

by DangMI - 9/29/09 3:15 AM In reply to: Whoa there... by porsche10x

Now that you're saying that your phone connects directly to Outlook, that's a different matter and sounds right on point for what we were looking for. She isn't interested in going through importing and all that. It was your talk about proprietary software and hyperbole about 15 year old phones that misled me. We'll check that out.

As for your other question, no, Verizon will not let you buy a smart phone without signing up for a data plan. I'm clear on the difference between buying a phone and getting a rebate--really. You just can't do it. I'm pretty sure that's a complete change from when you got your Sonys a couple years ago. I believe it's true of all the carriers now, unless I'm forgetting some exception. A rebate was never my concern or expectation--that's why I've kept saying I don't understand why they won't take my money. I'm willing to look at the full price of a given phone and decide if it is worth it to me for what I get with it--I am not willing to sign up for a monthly fee for life for something I do not intend to ever use.

Post 59 of 65

I take it all back!!!

by porsche10x - 11/4/09 1:31 PM In reply to: Very cool by DangMI

I was all set to recommend ATT, telling you that you can use any phone you want, until I got my last bill. Can you believe it? There's a note on my bill saying that, effective in September, you can no longer use a smart phone without a data plan! I called to ask a few questions, like, "um, why not???" Their answer was that they've had too many customers unknowingly run up huge data bills, then request refunds. I replied, "I'm not a child or an idiot. How about you let me use the phone I want? I don't use the internet anyway. I understand the pricing and won't use it." He replied that sure, customers say they won't but that with all the cool features available on the phone, eventually they do, so they created the policy. Of course, I asked "instead of forcing your customers to pay for something they may not use, why not just charge for actual usage but cap the price at the unlimited price when usage goes up? One plan, best of both worlds." He replied "hey, that's a really good idea. I'll submit it as a suggestion." Yeah. Right. I asked "what if I don't want to use the internet at all? What if I just want to use the advanced phone features? He replied, literally from a script: "we have had a large number of complaints about the new policy. Many customers want a built-in keyboard for texting. I'm supposed to read you the following. We have added a large selection of texting phones with keyboards that will not require a data plan. go to our website to see the many choices." Gee, thanks. I said "I don't text. I want ALL the advanced features of the phone: contact management, organizer, PDA-type applications, wifi, which, ahem, you can't charge me for. Is this the REAL reason for the policy? Actually, I currently have both data and texting DISABLED on my phone. If I keep them disabled, how about then?" He said that he certainly understood that there may be some users like me, for whom it would make sense to get a smart phone without a plan, but there really wasn't anything he, personally, could do. I then asked if that meant that maybe someone else, like his supervisor, or perhaps the retention department when I call to cancel my plan, would be able to do something? He replied "maybe. They have the authority to offer things that I can't." By the way, he did also mention that if I were already using a smart phone before September, then it would be "grandfathered" and I wouldn't have to get the data plan. I realize that doesn't help you or me now, though. The original note on my bill said that they would AUTOMATICALLY switch me to the data plan if I used a smart phone, even if I didn't change plans voluntarily. I asked exactly how they would determine that, by data usage or will the system detect the model number of the phone I use automatically? He didn't know. I asked, what if I just plug my sim card into my friend's phone to try it? Then what? He didn't know. What a load of absolute crap. Just another excuse to get more money from us. What's funny is they're having capacity problems already. Forcing people to pay for unlimited data plans will just encourage them to consume more, making things worse. I carry around a cell phone and a small wi-fi internet tablet. I'd love to have them both in one device. Oh well.

Post 60 of 65

Can I use my own smartphone on the Verizon network?

by richardinboulder - 11/8/09 7:02 PM In reply to: I take it all back!!! by porsche10x

I'm considering starting a 2-year contract for my family on Verizon. I'm interested in a smart phone (Imagio), but don't want to pay for the data plan.

If I buy an Imagio off ebay ($330 or so), can I insert the SIM card from a low-cost Verizon voice-only phone into the Imagio?

I realize that I won't have a data plan, but of course I don't want one. I just want the Windows 6.5 OS and a voice/texting plan.

I'm afraid that after spending the $330 on ebay, I'll end up with a phone that won't work with an existing SIM card because it's not properly registered etc.

Anybody with experience with this issue with Verizon?

Thanks!

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