Community Newsletter: Q&A: Laptop recommendation for children
- 6/20/08 12:13 PM
ever drop a macbook? Tech support isn't good. . . . .
by back_water_tech - 5/27/08 10:43 PM In reply to: Macs are no more expensive than any quality Windows box by JohnDCCIUApple makes a great desktop, but their laptops are complete junk. always have been and, as far as I can tell, always will.
They overheat and die. They are fragile (don't ever drop one.)
God help you if there is a problem and you need to send the "Book" in for repairs.
Yes, they have great incentive programs for students and educators, but the headaches associated with the machine is not worth it.
Apple makes up for those incentive programs by gouging people like me that decide to try them. the student special ($999) ran me $1700, and it was DOA. Its twin, that arrived 7 weeks later, would overheat and die after 30 minutes of use. Thank God for Visa. I had to get my credit card to threaten a lawsuit to get my money returned to me.
My sister, who is a technology teacher in Oklahoma, loves the silly things. she has three in her lab at school and one at home. She was dissapointed by the way Apple treated me with the failed units.
Agreed
by maciasd - 5/30/08 3:34 AM In reply to: Macs are no more expensive than any quality Windows box by JohnDCCIUComing for a die hard mac user I would like to provide evidence to this claim found here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html. Here they tested an iMac vs. a Gateway One and a MacBook vs. an Asus M51SR. I would like to point out the end of the article here:
"The Verdict: Apple
Mac: In both the laptop and desktop showdowns, Apple’s computers were the winners. Oddly, the big difference didn’t come in our user ratings, where we expected the famously friendly Mac interface to shine. Our respondents liked the look and feel of both operating systems but had a slight preference toward OS X. In our speed trials, however, Leopard OS trounced Vista in all-important tasks such as boot-up, shutdown and program-launch times. We even tested Vista on the Macs using Apple’s platform-switching Boot Camp software—and found that both Apple computers ran Vista faster than our PCs did.
PC: Simply put, Vista proved to be a more sluggish operating system than Leopard. Our PCs installed some software faster, but in general they were slower in our time trials. Plus, both PCs showed weaker performance on third-party benchmarks than the Macs. Our biggest surprise, however, was that PCs were not the relative bargains we expected them to be. The Asus M51sr costs the same as a MacBook, while the Gateway One actually costs $300 more than an iMac. That means for the price of the Gateway you could buy an iMac, boost its hard drive to match the Gateway’s, purchase a copy of Vista to boot—and still save $100."
Here is the proof. It is not more expensive to buy Mac, in fact it is cheaper. Moreover, you will allow your children more creative freedom outside of the constraints of Viruses, BSOD, and "Fatal Errors." As said before, take a trip to your local store and see the difference (hell, let your kids see the difference), and then make your decision.
REPLY
by jcpt928 - 6/20/08 8:51 PM In reply to: Macs are no more expensive than any quality Windows box by JohnDCCIUas for the suggestion of a MacBook, iMac, or Mac anything as a solution to his question, a key word, is "gaming". He asked about gaming, and for future reference, the gaming capabilities of a Mac-based anything are nil compared to a same-spec Windows machine. If your going to game, your going to use Windows, that's just how it is. So it is absurd to suggest a Mac as a solution. Sure, you can say "Well, you can use Windows on Mac with "BootCamp" or w/e its called, or any of the numerous other "solutions" to run Windows on a Mac. POINTLESS Heck, you can even run Halo on a Macbook, I've seen it done before! However, despite the fact that it ran great, the Mac had no support for any advanced graphics. (e.g. anti-aliasing, decals, and proper texture rendering). As a result, it was like playing in a "washout" Halo world, with colored silhouettes as your players. BAGH!! A Windows laptop of the same price and specs would have blown the Macbook away anyday. I am not an active "hater" of Mac; however, they serve no practical purpose except for those who do advanced A/V, for those who rarely or never do gaming, for students who need no other distractions installed on their PC, or those who are just not confident enough to sit at a Windows PC, deal with the occasional error message, and learn how to deal with it in a mature and efficient manner. I have been working on PC since I was 8, starting on a 486 and eventually going back to an 8086, and presently run on one of the fastest P4's money can buy, with very impressive specs (custom built of course), and absolutely everything in between. I still run into occasional "Windows flaws" if you want to call them that, but if you take the time to read what it says, and you know what you were doing when it happened, you can very quickly learn how to fix-it-yourself, and it soon becomes minimally bothersome; it just takes a bit of patience and understanding. My software experience rivals that of even the most techie of techies, not to brag, but I have more than ample experience, and a very strong foundation to stand on in my suggestion. Thank You
"bloody expensive"???
by RogerCVC - 5/24/08 9:58 AM In reply to: Yeah, if you want a bloody expensive laptop by Sasuto UchihaSo you would rather raise kids on Vista? Would you subject them to a nutjob polygamous sect also?;-)
Try the popular "lite" laptop
by tkjune - 5/16/08 6:50 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I think you have seen some information about these kinds of laptops. Including ASUS EEEPC, HP, MSI and so on. The price is under $500. They are small, fits the little fingers of your children. The performance is good enought for internet browsing, email, doc... even some small games. Hmm, the linux version is ok. My friends used ASUS EEEPC, felt good. They could meet your needs I suppose.
Dude your wrong!
by cruzer555 - 5/23/08 6:46 PM In reply to: Try the popular "lite" laptop by tkjuneI am a kid and I totally disagree. I am typing this right now on my HP Windows Vista laptop. I also like to ride my bike a lot and play outdoors, and I almost never play video games. You are stereotyping to say that kids with technology are nerds. I am not a nerd and yet I have more technology than you can shake a stick at!
Calm down Kiddo...
by alfonso_rd_26 - 6/21/08 9:12 AM In reply to: Dude your wrong! by cruzer555First of All, calm down Kid, It may be a stereotype, but just ignore it...
In respect at the question I must agree a Laptop might not be quite adequate for the kids to use, yet if you do desire to give them one make sure you attend the recomendations...
1. Disk space and Memory - The most you can get, 80-120 GB of disk space 1-2 GB of Ram Memory.
2. Brand - Well I'd go for a Dell or Compaq (I have used both Compaq and Dell PCs and have served me well..)
3. Graphics and sound - Here's the tricky part... good Graphic cards are quite expensive, as sound cards are, try to find not generic cards and You'll be OK
4. OS - Avoid VISTA, LINUX, and MAC OS at all cost... Vista is too young to be used at gaming, the others.... are just (in my opinion) crappy.
5. Other Gaming devices - They could not be useful... a good MAME can bring hours of old school fun and, despite that Xbox (both classic and 360), PS3, Wii and Game Cube are not well emulated yet there are alternative solutions like GB(A), NES, SNES, NDS, PS1, PS2 etc. quite well emulated, and I would recomend, besides WoW purchasing games like Fifa, city of (Heroes, Villians) and, for help in fitness Andamiro's Pump It Up!
I also will advice, like so many others to tryto get your kids active, and do family recreational stuff a lot, after all, a healthy Kid will be a Haelthy Gamer, and member of society...
An excellent idea!
by forkboy - 5/16/08 6:52 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
First let me say that I strongly endorse your desire to acquire a computer for the children. We purchased a laptop for our then 14 year old daughter solely for the purpose of protecting our home computer from 'accidents' that could have left us without precious photos, financial information and all sorts of other important files. If she does something bad to her laptop we can try to fix it or reload the recovery discs and the loss is HER problem.
However, I agree with your assessment that you may be deluding yourself. A notebook tough enough to survive two younger children that is also powerful enough for gaming (and this depends upon the sorts of games they are playing) will not be cheap. Actually, in my opinion, tough enough for their age group probably doesn't exist unless you look at the Toughbooks line from Panasonic. To be frank, I believe that modern laptops are more fragile than their predecessors from just five or six years ago and I base this upon the differences between my current laptop and my six year old one.
While it's not the advice you want I would recommend a desktop. First, it removes the issue of toughness. Second, it places the children in one location, which makes it easier for you to monitor their computing activities, which is very important these days. Third, if their games require 3D graphics capability you will be hard-pressed to find that sort of power in anything resembling a reasonably priced laptop. Fourth, lots of screen real estate will be very much enjoyed by the children while playing games and at 17-inches for the larger available screens with laptops they will be disappointed. These days a good quality 20 or 22 inch monitor is reasonably priced and usually even more so when bundled with a PC.
Perhaps the better solution is the PC route today and possibly moving to a laptop in three, four or five years, when the children are old enough to be more careful with the more delicate laptop product.
Sorry it's not necessarily the answer for which you are looking, but it is my advice. Best of luck coming to a decision.
Laptops
by Grungysquash - 5/16/08 7:01 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Bob - As a parent I have also been down this track, and have recently purchased a laptop for one of my kids.
Firstly you need to ask yourself - what will the kids be doing on it - and secondly how much do I want to spend.
Both questions are important as you can buy cheap laptops but in many respects you get what you pay for. For kids this age I assume they are into games - if so then this is an expensive route to go down particularly when it comes to laptops. While some have graphics cards these tend to be in the higher $$$ value range and also in a larger form factor ie 15 inch or 17 inch (there are some exceptions like dells XPS 1330 - which is 13 inch).
Seeing as you have decided to go down a gaming route you will need a graphics card, currently the best card on the market for laptops is the 8800GTX card - this is DX10 compatible but expect to pay around $3,500 - $4000 per laptop - a good example of this is alienwares 15xx. This is possibly the best 15 inch laptop around when it comes to performance.
As far as damage control is concerned check out extended warranties from someone like dell who run complete card and accident cover - this costs money but they will fix/replace parts if they get damaged.
The next step down is the 7950GTX card which is not DX10 compatible but can be found in older gaming laptops possibly second hand but these will be 17inch in size and are called desk top replacements so portability might be a tad hard for kids.
One other good option is Dells XPS 1330 - this is a 13 inch laptop so is portable and comes with 8400GS which is rather slow but would play older games and some modern ones on low resolution. Costs around $2,500AU
The other option is dump the graphics card and simply go for integrated graphics this will play only older games but might be OK for short term - you don't really need massage graphics capability for programs outside of games and say 3D rendering.
Another good option to keep the $$$ in your pocket is to find one from graysonline then sell HP's Dells, Acers etc and you can score a cheap deal - I just recently purchased an 14inch Acer for $354 - so bargains do exist if you know where to look.
And lastly decide on the operating system - seeing as you going down the gaming route MS is really the only option - While Vista is installed on almost all PC's these days you can downgrade to XP pro if you have Vista Business or Vista Ultimate, now this removes DX10 abilities in games but few games currently are based on DX10 anyway.
As far as CPU's ram HDD etc are concerned just make sure its either Centrino, or Centrino Duo with 2 gig ram and you should be fine - while the latest chipset out is santa rosa the older chipset called Centrino Duo is fine - try and get a dual core CPU if $$$ permit and aim for 2GHz or above - avoid celeron processes like the plague they are slow and gobble battery life.
In closing if I was in your shoes and had say $1500 per child I would find an XPS1330 from Graysonline - if I had the extra $$$ I would go for a 15 inch display if you thought the weight would not be excessive and buy an Alienware 15xx with an 8800GTX.
laptops for kids
by squirtlewa - 5/16/08 7:19 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I think it's a fine idea to get laptops for the boys. More and more, I see people getting laptops as their main computers for around the house. The nice thing is you can take them on the road, of course, but also have flexibility around the house. A great plus for multiple-computer households, is when they're not in use, they don't take much space.
For the boys, it sounds like their needs would be pretty easy to meet. For gaming, get one with a graphics card. Runescape isn't particularly demanding, but to future proof for their next games you might want to look for something with a geforce 8400 or higher.
Choose screen size and stuff like that based on personal preference. I'd suggest 2 GB of RAM and 160 GB for hard drive (more is better, naturally).
With youngsters, if your boys are anything like mine, I'd for sure get a warranty/service plan that covers accidents.
Be sure to get antivirus installed before anything else - also note that you can also take steps to monitor and/or limit what they do on the interwebs.
The first thing I'd say
by tekchallenged - 5/16/08 7:23 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
is that this is not an investment - all you'll get for your money is the use of the equipment for the time it remains unbroken/functioning/able to run whatever it is you want to run before it is obsolete.
From my experience, I think laptops will have an extremely hard time withstanding the treatment of a child. I am a very careful person and I have to handle my new laptop with extreme care - the screen, latches and case all seem to be extremely fragile to me (unlike my previous IBM Thinkpad with the 8Mb ram, which was a solid little machine). In my experience, even when they are trying really hard, little kids don't have the physical coordination to hang onto things and not drop them, or not to knock drinks over, nor the sense not to leave their stuff lying around to be trodden on, sat on, etc etc. In other words, I would expect even the most careful kid to break it.
There is a brand called Panasonic Toughbook which are marketed as suitable for use at minesites and the like (not sure if they are childproof :D), but when I looked them up on the web they cost about 5 times what a "garden variety" laptop did.
My advice is to go down to the shop and buy yourself the cheapest laptop you can find that has the specs for that game you want and buy that. When it breaks, get another. Or get a secondhand machine. Treat the cost as a rental expense.
If that game is "doable" on a playstation or game "thingy", I'd get that instead (I think they are more "kid-proof") and get yourself the cheapest secondhand machine you can find for internet/word processing (any "antiquated" machine will do this - it's the games that require the latest greatest ram and video cards).
In relation to the games, my new laptop gets really really hot when playing games (not the latest ones, either) and shuts itself off sometimes (I'm assuming due to heat). I don't think they are designed for running under load for long periods.
(I haven't lectured you about doing it at all because you've said you've had that already, but I can't resist completely - there are lots of good games that don't need a computer, and the internet is full of garbage - present company excepted, of course :D).
Thinkpad T-series is kid-proof; get a hi-spec used model
by ralphclark - 5/16/08 7:52 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
There's not been all that much change in terms of performance and specification over the last five years or so, and a 2004 "Pentium M" model (lower power version of Pentium III) would easily cope with the workload you described plus much more too. So there's very little point in paying the premium for a brand new laptop unless you are desperate for a manufacturer warranty.
It's possible to get a brand new notebook for under $400 but not only do such machines tend to be quite low-spec in terms of screen and peripherals, the build quality won't be all that great. Another thing Ive found is that the built in speakers in some of these "craptops" are so quiet and tinny that multimedia is a non-starter.
By contrast, the IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpad T-series is designed to withstand the rigours of travel, with a titanium-reinforced lid to protect the screen. The keyboard has a more positive action than most and they are equipped with both a touchpad *and* a very accurate trackpoint device (the red nipple thing) which many find much easier to use.
You can pick up a used Thinkpad T42p in good condition for under $400 if you look around. Don't be shy of ebay. The exact specification varies greatly depending on the exact model number, which is found on the bottom of the machine and is always something like 2343-XXX or 2348-XXX. Be sure to obtain that number from the seller: if you punch it into this form on the joint Lenovo/IBM website [ http://tinyurl.com/yau8vk ] it will tell you the exact specification of that model.
So let's backtrack and have a look at the sort of spec you will need. Having grown up before the age of the internet you may be surprised at the level of sophistication in the school IT syllabus these days. By the time my son finished his first year of high school he was already competent with Word, Excel, MS Publisher, Adobe Photoshop and movie editing software. By half way through the following year I was asking *him* for technical help. So you need to make sure you provide a computer with a spec generally comparable to recent desktops or they will struggle to finish their complex homework.
CPU speed isn't all that important, the 1.7GHz or 1.8GHz models will be fine for just about any app you are likely to encounter and battery life will be quite a bit better than on the 2.0GHz variant.
With respect to memory, even with WinXP you really need at least 1GB of RAM. Browsers and office apps are fairly memory hungry these days and the standard desktop configuration these days is 2GB.
Consider looking for a 15" model with UXGA+ (1600x1200) resolution as it's much easier to run multiple apps when you don't have to keep Alt-tabbing.
It's also worth looking out for a model equipped with ATI "FireGL T2" graphics if it's likely to be used with graphics-heavy apps like Google Earth or 3D games. Especially the 128MB variant as this will support the highest available screen resolutions on an external monitor as well.
With regard to connectivity, I believe all models have a modem and ethernet port. Most have a miniPCI Wi-Fi card (if not, it's quite easy to add one later). Some also have Bluetooth.
The minimum hard disk size on these machines is 40GB but this includes a hidden reserved partition where the OS installation files are stored and you may be surprised by how quickly it can fill up once you start installing apps. 60GB is better for a single user, or 80GB if it's shared. Otherwise you just have to do disk cleanups more regularly.
Optical drive: you just can't get by without a DVD-ROM. A DVD writer is nice to have but a combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW will be sufficient.
Finally, if something does go wrong, Thinkpads are very easy to repair, parts are easy to obtain there is more than enough information on the manufacturer website and numerous thinkpad-specific forums.
I wouldn't buy anything else for my kids, or indeed for myself. I got one for my 11 year old daughter 2 years ago, in the end the whole family ended up bashing on it every single day and (though I had to replace the CPU fan unit recently) it's still as good as new.
Hope that helps.
The Digital Age
by XSYLUS - 5/16/08 7:57 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Personally I am not a Macintosh user, however, working in many technical support positions I would say that less than 3% of my support issues are with MACs and of those 3% most are just simple user mistakes rather than actual technical problems caused by the computer. To save yourself the headache of having to get the laptops serviced for virus removal or other problems I would recommend a Mac Laptop computer.
If you prefer a Windows based laptop I would recommend VAIO or LENOVO/IBM however they are both expensive because they are durable. Lenovo is currently offering 35% off of their ThinkPad laptops and free shipping and you can customize the hardware. I think some of there standard R series models start at just over $500.00 with the discount. ThinkPads are extremely durable and you get all the drivers and support directly from Lenovo.com. They come with a built in factory reset function in case the computer has major problems and they also offer a "revitalize" feature which is meant to keep the computer running at peak potential.
As far as specifications go, I would look at either AMD or Intel for a processor, they're both good although some may argue that Intel Mobile CPU's are more efficient when it comes to battery life. Here's a list of recommended specs:
• CPU: 1.5Mhz or higher (dual core or single core; either would work)
• RAM (memory): 2GB
• LCD size: 11" or higher (makes for easier portability)
(* Some offer 7" screens but that might be a bit small. In the end it's a matter of preference. You also probably do not need widescreen laptops.)
• Hard Disk: Probably wouldn't need more than 100GB at most, and for gaming purposes I'd recommend 7200RPM speed over 5400RPM.
• Optical Drive: I don't expect that you'd need a DVD burner so you could go with a CD burner / DVD reader that way your sons could still watch DVD movies and it should save you some money.
I think that about covers it. If you're looking to get mobile internet as in Verizon's EVDO rather than just standard WIFI Lenovo is offering a special on that as well. All in all I would say it's still going to be a tough decision. Before I bought my ThinkPad T61p I shopped around for weeks because I knew what features I wanted but at the time I was more partial to Sony VAIOs, and part of me wanted to get an Alienware but my budget wouldn't allow it. In the end I am glad I chose the ThinkPad.
On a personal note: I do not see anything wrong with introduction your sons to they're own laptops. It will teach them responsibility, and get them used to using computers which they will no doubt encounter in the future. Many people might think you're spoiling them but it's a generation gap. In my generation having a TV in the bedroom was pushing the envelope, this new generation is all about the portability. I take my hat off to you though because you're adding a lot to your plate by allowing your sons this privilege. You'll have to continually monitor they're usage, especially when online, and you'll have to occasionally deal with the servicing because computers are like cars eventually something breaks. At least with computers it's typically software rather than hardware. Best of luck in your endeavors.
Laptop suitable for children
by scottghall - 5/16/08 8:06 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
There is a project for the world called "One Laptop per Child", designed to bring an inexpensive PC to every child possible. You can read the main page of features at: "http://wiki.laptop.org/go/The_Children's_Machine"
You can also see a review of this from an 8-year old's perspective: "http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/my-8-year-old-reviews-the-olpcxo.aspx"
Mainly this is a full laptop ruggedized and designed for children. It runs all free open-source software (using a skinny version of Fedora Core Linux -- a form of Red Hat Linux), and will not only connect to the Internet via wifi, but to other OLPC computers as well, creating a local network of the children's computers that are near each other, designed for multiuser interactive play. The computers include productivity software (word processor, calculator, etc) and much educational software. You can add software to it with downloads of from the Internet and from some major retailers. Though you can run some MS-Windows software via MIME, most MS-Windows-only games and multimedia software is out; but not to worry, as their Linux counterparts are available free for the download.
Check this out and I think you'll find that this will make a perfect travel companion for your kids while on the road. And when you download MAME and load on the original versions of famous arcade games, they'll never ask for a GameBoy ever again.
Laptop
by skmshaffer - 5/16/08 8:19 PM In reply to: Laptop recommendation for children by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
What I recommend is that you get a Compaq Presario C700T series starting at $479.99 it is running windows Vista so you can set parental controls it should work fine
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